Help- New lovebird introduced

[matrona]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the forum, and have been having a lot of fun browsing through the various postings and reading about your birds! Gives me some hope, in that my own are exhibiting normal behaviours! (I'm a new bird owner)

I need some help, and I'mhoping that someone might have some hints or tips on how I should deal with my situation.

Here is my story:

I had 2 lovies (peachfaced Lutino), which were ten months old on June 1st. I received them at 2 months. I believe they were male + female. They bonded wonderfully; they were so wonderful together - although they screamed non stop at least 12+ hours a day, and at about 6 months of age, the male began biting one day, when I offered him my finger to step up. That happened out of the blue, and continues to this day.

My female was very affectionate, she literally just loved me; after four months she was flying onto my head every time i opened the cage, she would follow me around the house to come perch on my shoulder or head, whenever i was busy and wasnt paying attention, and would just sit there and keep me company. I swear, call me crazy, but every time the male tried to go and bite me, she would nip at him, or run over to make him stop! It was the most beautiful thing. She was honestly extremely communicative and very lovign, and it was almost unreal. She even cleaned her cage by herself!!!!!!! (YES!) She would scrape off her droppings that would end up on perches, and drop them to the floor, she would go into her treehouse and sweep out all of the food or feathers that accumulated in there, and with her beak sweep them onto the floor... So funny!

She died 2 days ago. She died unexpectedly! She was in perfect health according to my vet; so it came as a shock, that after 3 hours of flying about the house and having fun, and playing with her mate, and with me, that she suddenly went in for lunch, had a few pellets and some lettuce, then flew back out, and just land on the floor, dead. There was no way to revive her! I dont know why she died, or how she died, and the only thing I can think of is heart attack or stroke! Long story short (LOL - Sorry this is so long, I just felt like sharing what a great and special bird she was) I was devastated.

My little guy (Jaws) knew it instantly, though he was in his cage... and spent the rest of the day moping on the floor, sitting still, staring at the wall. After some time, he started flying everywhere, around the house calling to her, and looking for her. I didnt let him see her dead body, I tried to hide that as much as I could so that he wouldnt feel threatened or wouldnt know anything...But you cant fool these little guys.. that night he wouldnt sleep, and he looked at me knowingly, with these sad little eyes, sad little face; he even stopped biting for the entire time; he just moped. he was sad. he was crying, in his little chirp, for hours on end that night... I couldnt take it. And since I was so upset, the first thing I did the next day was go to the pet store and buy a new bird. He needed a companion.

I wanted to make a quick shift, so that he wouldnt be sad, and maybe try and trick him, I dont know what I thought. So I bought the new little lady (I think?) and she is four months younger than him, and so incredibly tame and so wonderfully calm, she doesnt scream nor bite, nada...I dont know what to do though...

I have them in separate cages, as I was advised...sitting next to each other. On the first day I i let them itneract on the area carpet just in front of their cages, and he instantly went into attack mode onto the new bird. THE PROBLEM is that the pet store only sold birds with clipped wings, so my little lady cant even fly...She is terrified of him.

Day two: Same thing. i let he rout of her cage and she jumps onto his, to go and say hi, I guess, and just sits there watching him; she tries to be "nice and sociable" but he will climb up and immediately go for her feet, and start biting hard... I put them out together on the floor, and he does the same thing; he goes in for the bite..

Day Three: Same exact thing. She tries to be sociable and approach him, but he attacks. then when he's out by himself, he goes towards her cage and perches on top and stares down at her, then tries to chase her if she is hanging from the metal bars alongside her cage, so he can bite her some more.

She cant fly so she cant follow him when they are both out; and he is attacking her... it is very new, and he has lost a mate; and though they chirp at each other, and show communication, the violent attacks are there and I dont know how to deal with it. Is he ever going to stop, or is there something I should specifically do to help the situation? He bites us too, when he does feel threatened, or just for fun; so it's not that his biting is in any way new. He is hand shy as well, and will only step up, onto one's forearm, unless he's in biting mode, in which a lot of flesh becomes available to him to chomp down on and he likes it.

I am worried and scared, and I love this new little bird that I got because she is so wonderfuly tame and so precious, and just affectionate and cuddly and I fear for her... I wonder if ill ever be able to put them together. Any advice from anyone ?

Im sorry for the length of this, and would understand if peeps just by passed it withuot reading it, but I just wanted to give some emotional history on this situation, to shed some light, to gain more thorough advice...

thanks so much for help, listening, etc. in advance :)

:)

[Janie]

Hi and welcome. :)

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your lovebird. Were your two DNA'd? Sounds like the female (if she was a female) was more "male" like and visa versa. Did you have a necropsy done? I would have suggested that since you do have another bird (now two) and would want to rule out an illness that might be contagious.

As far a the new bird, has this bird been DNA so that you know, for fact, it's a she? There are different "sexing" methods but only actual DNA sexing in peachface lovies is as close to fool-proof as possible. Pelvic testing is nothing more than a guess even though many pet stores and some breeders will tell you that sexing that way is accurate, it's not. Not only would I keep these two separated, they should actually have been in separate rooms and not sharing the same air space during a full 30 day quarantine. A new bird should be vet checked immediately after you get it and then quarantined, separate cage, separate room, before being introduced to another bird. After that quarantine I would still go slowly, very slowly, when introducing them and never leave the two of them together unattended, even for a second.

My story..... I had (still have) one older adopted lovie and decided two years after I adopted him that I wanted two more. I got two, DNA'd brothers, and kept them in an upstairs bedroom for 30 days. For the protection of my first bird I did have my avian vet do every possible check, including blood work, on the new lovies to be sure they didn't have a contagious disease that might be passed to him. When I did introduce the three, I stood no more than a foot away so that I could intervene if they decided to pick on Oliver (my first bird) and it was a full 6 months of total harmony before I ever left the three alone unattended.

With the behavior you have observed from your bird (the male, if it is a male) I would NOT let them out together for now. Maybe he is pining for his former mate and will take time to adjust to a new bird or possibly you now have two hens. :confused:

[matrona]

Hi there, and thanks so much for your reply, your thoughts and your great tips :)...

You raised some great questions there, that got me thinking tremendously; and since I'm a newer bird owner with very little experience, and many fears, it's great to have such feedback.

Interesting thought about my "male" sounding more female like. Truth is, nope. THey were never officially dna tested. The breeder who gave them to me was rather sure of himself when he explained which was which - though as most experts have said, and you as well, DNA testing is the only true way to go. Honestly, the only thing I can really say to rule out the possibility of the two being mixed up (in my mind, as to which is male and which is female), and also to rule out whether there were two hens or two males, is that at about March, Spring fever set in, and though I know sexual maturity is not achieved at only 8 or so months, the "male" was chasing after the female" and (not to be crude, so please accept my apologies lol) he was trying to get with her - him on top her on bottom lol... Also, my female was always the one on the bottom of their feeding session..bobbing her head back and forth till they locked beaks and such... I know it sounds so foolhardy and foolish of me, but based on those two criteria I just carried on thinking that they were what they were based on sex... Either way, they were just in love with each other, so calm and pleasant and helping each other, never fighting, and so on. Just with us humans, the "male" got territorial over his cage.

As for the clean bill of health... Thanks for your suggestion about quarantine. They were both at the vet, three weeks before she died, and the vet told me they were both in perfect health - but a bacteria or a virus can happen in a matter of minutes so... I have to take the older one, 'my guy' to the vet and make sure he is still all right, I guess; just to make sure that nothing is passed on. Honestly, until you mentioned it, it never occured to me to do that. The one hat died, exhibited absolutely NO signs of illness whatsoever. None. and after the vet told me they were good to go, I honestly attributed her death to heartattack or stroke... she was burried well before we could do a necropsy, because my family wouldnt have it any other way; so that wont happen. Bu ti will definitely get the older one checked out.

Keeping themin different rooms for a month or so.. Hmmm. I will try keeping them in different rooms until at least they the older one is issued clean bill of health... Its so funny; when they are together, the guy attacks the girl; when i take her away from the room, he calls out to her like crazy so tha twhen i bring her back, he stops. Cant live with her, and cant live without her. I intend to get DNA testing on both of them eventually, just to be absolutely sure - and know how to deal with them.

Males and males can be buddies the pet store ppl told me; but females and females will kill each other? Would males resort to such behaviour as well? I wonder...

Thanks again so much for your tips and thoughts... glad to hear that you have a great set of lovies getting along :)

[Mummieeva]

I am going to agree that your "male" sounds like a hen to me. If the new bird is a hen then yes it could end badly if they are caged together. Some hens will accept other hens but it is not the norm. I would get both sexed then go from there. Normaly the rule with birds is a hen will not accept a male younger then her. I wish you great luck with your new birds and hope it get better for you soon.

[Janie]

Matrona, trust me, I had ZERO pet bird experience until I adopted Oliver almost 5 years ago and found this great forum. I "googled" lovebirds and that took me here, THANK HEAVENS! Although Oliver had never been DNA'd he was at least 6 or 7 when I got him and had never laid an egg so it was safe to assume he was a male. In fact, he was way beyond puberty by then and the only thing I've ever seen him do it to run in circles and scratch his cheek real fast. That was explained to me as sexual behavior and I was "flattered" that he'd decided I was his chosen one! :D Since I've had him he as never masturbated or gacked, both common in younger males. BTW, just to confuse you even more, :D, sometimes males display female behavior and visa versa! Without DNA sexing or finding an egg, there is no other way to be sure.

My other two, forget about it! :omg: They were about 9 plus weeks old when I got them so I've witnessed full blown puberty with both! :whistle: I did pay the breeder to DNA them before I agreed to buy them since I only wanted males. One of the younger two, Shy, is still "enjoying" puberty every day and gacks piles (he also eats what he gacks, :rolleyes: ) and masturbates on his chosen one, a birdie buddy that is attached to the side of the cage. I hope it will pass soon but at over 3 years old he is still going strong.

Sometimes females do get along and bond to the point they can be caged together. More often, males get along together better than females but there are no guarantees in pairing up either sex. It is rare for "3" to get along well but my three do. The younger brothers are caged together at night and Oliver has his own cage but all three live in harmony outside their cages during the day (in a safe bird room).

I would never have known about quarantine w/o this forum. For that matter, I didn't realize their were vets that specialized in birds before I found this forum. Oliver had never been to a vet until I adopted him. We live and we learn! :D

Check out the Lovebird Resource Library on the home page of the forum. Lots of great info. there. :) And don't hesitate to ask questions.....we are all here to learn and to help when we can. :)

I want to add one more thing: If your first bird does turn out to be a hen and the new bird is a male, that can also cause trouble for the younger male. When pairing up a hen with a male it's best to have an older male, at least 6 months to a year older than the hen. It may very well be that you do have two males that will just take time in bonding. Even if they never bond they can still be good company for each other in the same room but different cages.

[LauraO]

Matrona: I am very sorry for your loss. Losing a beloved fid is never easy.

My advise is to slow things down and not expect your birdies to bond right away. First, your remaining lovie just lost a mate and that is a difficult thing and he/she needs time to adjust. Secondly, your new lovie is a lot younger than your existing bird and the behaviour you describe regarding their time together sounds pretty normal for this kind of encounter. Often, older or existing birds don't immediately take to a newcomer. It may be with time they get closer but be prepared for the possibility they may never get along or be able to live together. I would work on spending as much time with them as you can, and to let them out together as long as they are monitored and not doing anything more serious than biting toes with no blood. I would try and keep the new lovie off the top of the your existing lovie's cage cause that is definately a recipe for some bloody toes. A towel or cloth over the top should help.

Both lovies are still young so the sex of the lovies doesn't necessarily mean as much as if they were older. Of course, Janie and Steph are right about the possible problems that could develop with two hens. However, since your lovies now each have a cage you can just watch and monitor them and decide what to do as time goes by. I do suggest that you not put them in the same cage for some time even if they start getting along.

Once again, I'm sorry for your loss. I'm wondering if your lovie died in flight? If so, this could definately indicate a heart condition. Of course, anything is possible.

Oh, and while Janie and Steph are right about the necessity of DNA testing to determine sex in lovies, I wanted to point out there are far more lutino females than males, cause they are a sex-linked mutaion. So I wouldn't be surprised if you had two females.

Good luck and welcome to the board. This really is a great place for all info lovie and more. Please keep us update on your progress. We love to hear how fids are doing and it helps others who may have similiar issues.

:D :D