View Full Version : Taming: What's the next step?
Hi All,
I got elmo 9 days ago now.. and I have been trying all different types of taming methods with him.
He's slowly getting used to my hands in the cage although I am not allowed to touch him
This afternoon elmo and I were sitting on the balcony. I opened his door cage and held some millet. Initially putting it out infront of me, then slowly slowly inching it towards my leg. I then put it on my leg and putting my hand out for a perch for him to jump on to eat it. After alot of debating in his brain, his obsession for millet won out and jumped on my hand. I was able to bring up right up to my face while he was eating millet. I could kiss his back and rub his back against my cheek, but if he saw my other hand he would freak out.
I know he likes head scratches as when I was trying the holding to my chest method, he would close his eyes when I was scratching his head, after some protest. Though when he realises that I was no longer holding him. he would run away, regardless of the fact I could tell he was enjoying the head pats.
My question is, beside patience and time, is there anything else I can do so he becomes ok with my hands. From now on, this type of training/trust exercises are the only ones I am going to try with elmo.:happy:
Also, what is the next step when he finds it ok to jump on my hand to eat millet. I know millet is the only reason why he is jumping on my hand.
I have tried to teach the step up with him in the quiet room but he runs away from my hand every single times and tries to fly away, he finds it very distressing. I can't even bribe him with millet.
linda040899
08-10-2008, 06:45 AM
With Elmo only being with you 9 days, this is truly amazing progress!!! :)
The only thing that will help you get what you want is time. Unfortunately, there are no short cuts. You want that trust relationship and you simply have to give Elmo time to realize that you mean him no harm. Put yourself in his place. He is in a completely new environment and he is unsure of everything, just as you would be if you moved to a new town, new home and did not know anyone.
Is his love of millet why he jumped onto your hand? For the moment, yes. He wants his treat more than he's afraid of what's holding it. Be patient and give him time to realize that your hand is doing something good and is not to be feared. You want hands to invoke pleasant things so take it slowly. The day will come when he will trust you and want nothing more than to be with you. Lovebirds are very social and a number of our members here have walked in your shoes with their birds. I'm sure you will hear from others about their experiences!
Thank you linda. I guess times.. I never had patience before... elmo is teaching me this! hahaha.
do you ever get the feeling that your bird is highly independent?... I get this vibe off elmo.. hes more than happy to play with his own toys.. to bang his swing against the cage and duck when it comes back.. hahaha.
Pips mom
08-10-2008, 08:20 AM
do you ever get the feeling that your bird is highly independent?... I get this vibe off elmo..
It seems you are getting to know your lovie quite well for such a short time! They do tend to have an independent streak! My lovie is very independent......no hands allowed touching him, NOOO, they can hold back an independent lovie who wants to do what HE wants to do! or make him do things he doesn't want to do! Like taking meds at the moment....Yuck!
michael
08-10-2008, 08:47 AM
Thank you linda. I guess times.. I never had patience before... elmo is teaching me this! hahaha.
do you ever get the feeling that your bird is highly independent?... I get this vibe off elmo.. hes more than happy to play with his own toys.. to bang his swing against the cage and duck when it comes back.. hahaha.
Hi Momo. I'm glad to hear in only 9 days your making some good progress with your special friend Elmo. As for him teaching you patience, along with what we may all learn from our feathered companions, i'm sure we could not ask for better instructors ;). You know, with "single" parrot households, having some "independence" for those birds is a blessing. Often, some birds will become so attached/bonded to their owner that when their left alone some negative behavior can set in. Banging his swing and playing with his toys will help keep him happy and healthy. So really, besides forming a relationship with him, making sure he continues to hold an interest in his cage environment by providing a constant choice of toys and foraging exercises is very important. I especially love when my little guy destroys something in his cage (as long as its safe) as this shows me he's keeping himself busy while i'm out for awhile. Matter of fact, its even more fun to be able to sit back and watch him play while I am home!. Anyways, we'd love to hear more about your Elmo as time goes by. Thanks for sharing your progress with him...............:)
it feels as though ive had elmo for a year but its only been nine days..
I make him new toys with things I have around the house, bird safe of course. his favourite is a piece of cardboard on ribbon. the first day he kept biting it, it fell off the string, i have now folded more cardboard in half, he hasnt been able to chew it off the string yet.
i have shown him what the bell does.. he tries to get it to make the same sound but fails, as the middle part is quite short so you need to give it a good shake.. its hilarious to watch. he looks at it like.."what am I doing wrong?"
this may sound stupid.. foraging.. is that when they make a nest out of things? if not... may I ask what is it? and what can I give him to let him forage.
linda040899
08-10-2008, 10:39 AM
this may sound stupid.. foraging.. is that when they make a nest out of things? if not... may I ask what is it? and what can I give him to let him forage.
There are no stupid questions in our community! By all means, ask if you are not sure!
Foraging is a term that describes what birds do in the wild when they look for food. Unlike captive bred birds, wild birds have to look for their food and the term used is "forage."
For Elmo to forage for his food, you need to put it in things, under things so that it's harder for him to get. He has to work for what he eats. For instance, you can wrap a piece of millet in safe, chewable paper and maybe leave just a tiny bit visible at the top or bottom. Let him see that there's food available so that he gets used to looking for it. This will be a new concept for him and if he doesn't see a bit of food, he may think that there's nothing in his cage for him to eat. Foraging is an idea that you will have to introduce slowly until he catches on.
I will most def try to get the foraging thing going with elmo.
what can I use to securely wrap the paper around the millet obiously not glue or staples... is there a special way to fold the paper around the millet.. cause when I wrap it around it just opens :(
is there anyway to do this with seed as well? I kind of want to keep millet for an outside of the cage, playing with me treat. I'm slowly trying to introduce new foods to elmo as an all seed diet is bad for them.. but hes VERY stubborn. he will just lick it the veggies i put in, I dont think he understands how to bite it.
michael
08-12-2008, 09:30 PM
I will most def try to get the foraging thing going with elmo.
what can I use to securely wrap the paper around the millet obiously not glue or staples... is there a special way to fold the paper around the millet.. cause when I wrap it around it just opens :(
is there anyway to do this with seed as well? I kind of want to keep millet for an outside of the cage, playing with me treat. I'm slowly trying to introduce new foods to elmo as an all seed diet is bad for them.. but hes VERY stubborn. he will just lick it the veggies i put in, I dont think he understands how to bite it.
Foraging is a great way to help keep your Elmo active both physically and mentally. When I wrap up my lovies treats and such I just use plain white typing paper, place whatever he likes in the centre, then twist it up tight like those ghosts we used to make with kleenex or TP. I also make sure he's watching whenever I do this. You can try nutriberries, veggie bites, or any other dry foods you think he might like. If he has not taken to other foods yet you can always try offering them at a later date or maybe start out with a small bit of millet the size of your finger tip, that way you can still offer a little bit later when he's out with you :). There are other methods to help get our birds to forage for their food such as layering small pieces of leafy greens and other veggies over top of their seed mix. The only problem is most fresh veggies and fruits can only be left available for about two hours, then they must be discarded as bacteria can set in. Whenever layering is used as a way to introduce other foods, its important you make sure they can finally get to the foods they do like, otherwise you may end up with a starving lovebird!
Just for the record here, seed is not at all that bad. Its really the "absence" of other healthy foods such as veggies and limited amounts of fruit thats the real problem. Without these additional "live" foods should lovebirds consume seeds as their only source of food, over time they may show signs of malnutrition. And among other things, for some birds this can result in a lowered immune response which could make them more susceptible to illness.
Your absolutely right when you said you don't think he understands how to bite the foods you offer him. Like some birds don't really know what toys are, some don't know the foods we offer them are even edible. Sometimes offering smaller bits or strips of veggies may work better because their less "threatening". You can also show him their safe by eating them yourself. Of course, this is provided he has no contact with foods from your mouth as that could get him very sick :x. You know, I think because Elmo is already "licking" certain foods you offer him, he is now the perfect candidate towards offering a bit of creativity. I'll would just as soon bet that eventually he'll be eating a lot more than just seeds................:)
I have now put some strips of bok choy leaves over his seed.. so hopefully he will try and eat them.. i find it hard because after the two hours you need to take it out of the cage.. so by the time he sort of gets used to it being there, i need to take out..
would you suggest that i fit half of his seed bowl with fruit and veggies and only have a tiny portion of seed in it?.. or would he just eat the seed and go on a hunger strike?
MariefromCanada
08-13-2008, 08:14 AM
I had kiki since Saturday and I haven't tried training him with millet because I placed a large piece inside his cage.
What I did is I prepared myself for some serious bitting by wrapping a bandaid around my finger. I slowly starting playing with him and his toys and gradually move my finger towards him. Good thing I had a band aid !!! Because he bit me hard but it didn't hurt. LOL after a while, he had calmed down and he started getting use to the finger.
This morning did the same thing again and he bit me but I had a band aid on. If you removed your finger too quickly, he'll get that you're scared and will strike back. But with the band aid, as I slowly removed my finger, nothing happened.
I hope one day I will be able to have kiki in my hands.
I don't know if it's the right method to do but at least now, I can touch his beak without him freakin' out and no problems putting my hand in his cage to change his water and food.
Triock
08-13-2008, 08:36 AM
Baby Jack has been with us now for 6 weeks :happy: ; he became hand trained very quickly and now happly comes to the front of the cage ready to hop on when you enter the room. He picked up the "up" command in his second week as we gave him a weeks grace to settle in and get used to our voices and other sights and sounds espically as he was also now away from his parents who we also now have in another room....but Jack makes his way over when he wants to visit them, lol. We did take the decision to clip his wings during these early stages to make him more dependant on us - his adoptive parents and flock leaders. All hasnt been plain sailing though as he went from being a very relaxed bird who didnt mind being touched on his head or on his body to now really going for it if you try to touch his head, but then on occassion he still lets you so i think it a question of time and lots of patience. But you are right when you say not to pull away quickly because that what they want and if you carry on the behavoiur that is learnt is "if I bite those nasty fingers go away" this then leads on to "if i bite the hand goes away" and so on. But time to build trust is the best way forward with lots of praise and treats. Will keep you posted on Jacks progress.
Z28Taxman
08-13-2008, 11:07 AM
Foraging is a great way to help keep your Elmo active both physically and mentally. When I wrap up my lovies treats and such I just use plain white typing paper, place whatever he likes in the centre, then twist it up tight like those ghosts we used to make with kleenex or TP. I also make sure he's watching whenever I do this. You can try nutriberries, veggie bites, or any other dry foods you think he might like. If he has not taken to other foods yet you can always try offering them at a later date or maybe start out with a small bit of millet the size of your finger tip, that way you can still offer a little bit later when he's out with you :). There are other methods to help get our birds to forage for their food such as layering small pieces of leafy greens and other veggies over top of their seed mix. The only problem is most fresh veggies and fruits can only be left available for about two hours, then they must be discarded as bacteria can set in. Whenever layering is used as a way to introduce other foods, its important you make sure they can finally get to the foods they do like, otherwise you may end up with a starving lovebird!
Just for the record here, seed is not at all that bad. Its really the "absence" of other healthy foods such as veggies and limited amounts of fruit thats the real problem. Without these additional "live" foods should lovebirds consume seeds as their only source of food, over time they may show signs of malnutrition. And among other things, for some birds this can result in a lowered immune response which could make them more susceptible to illness.
Your absolutely right when you said you don't think he understands how to bite the foods you offer him. Like some birds don't really know what toys are, some don't know the foods we offer them are even edible. Sometimes offering smaller bits or strips of veggies may work better because their less "threatening". You can also show him their safe by eating them yourself. Of course, this is provided he has no contact with foods from your mouth as that could get him very sick :x. You know, I think because Elmo is already "licking" certain foods you offer him, he is now the perfect candidate towards offering a bit of creativity. I'll would just as soon bet that eventually he'll be eating a lot more than just seeds................:)
Ditto makes his own foraging fun. He'll move his food around between his normal food bowl, his veggie bowl and his treat cup. Then when he gets it all moved around he changes his mind and moves it around again. :rofl:
MariefromCanada
08-13-2008, 11:46 AM
[QUOTE=Triock;116004]Baby Jack has been with us now for 6 weeks :happy: ; he became hand trained very quickly and now happly comes to the front of the cage ready to hop on when you enter the room. He picked up the "up" command in his second week as we gave him a weeks grace to settle in and get used to our voices and other sights and sounds espically as he was also now away from his parents who we also now have in another room....
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Was Jack hand fed or parent fed ? There is no chance that kiki will be in the palm of my hands anytime now. He doesn't freak out when he sees my hands, only *the finger* LOL.
Yesterday, when I reached for him, he slowly came to my hand but I was afraid he would bite me so I pulled away. I don't trust him yet so I understand he wouldn't trust me either. Time but I am not a very patient person :-(
I really really hope he's going to come around.
The only way elmo comes to hand is if he sees millet.. if I dont have anything in my hand and go near him he flutters and flys away still. though if I move my hands towards him he's ok.. but keeps a careful eye on him.
but I am going to try the bandaid trick.. thank you mariefromcanada!!
i have done the holding to the chest method with elmo before.. and if i scratch his head for long enough he begins to close his eyes.. but his beak isnt strong but he knows where to bite for pain..
Triock
08-13-2008, 02:55 PM
Baby Jack was defo reared by his Mum in the nest, we were the first to have hand contact with him. It was straight from the breeders avairy to us in his new home indoors. Kiki may be just protecting his territory, sometimes you have to remove the familiar home to get them to rely on you. I used this method with my Grey. Youu need to teach Kiki that you do not mean him harm and he also needs to learn the up command. Also ask yourself what do you want to achieve first, for him to step up or be kind to your fingers, lol, beacuse you dont wnat to push lots of things on to the poor thing. My advice get him used to stepping up on command and if he is biting then use a perch and present this and everytime he does the step up treat use his fav treat as a reward then repeat for about 10 mins each session, must be sure of no distractions though keep him focused on the task which is to step up. You'll be suprised how quickly they pick up the idea, once he learns that stepping up means reward and loads of praise, then getting to the finger step up will be a lot easier, but remember to use the same phrase each time and reward as soon as he does the "up" and lots of praise, then gradually whn he is on the perch or finger offer the treat just far enough from his beak to keep his attention while you move hin out of the cage, if he hops off, give him the "up" command again and try again. When he finally comes out tons of praise and treat, job done, no need to push to far to fast. Play time :) Then try again later in the day or next day. Once he is used to coming out on your finger use another room to train as you will find they rely on you completly in a different surrounding its amazing teh change in their attitude. Hope this help, but above all try to learn Kikis behaviour under stress as you do not want to stress him out too much, btw is Kiki clipped or not?
MariefromCanada
08-13-2008, 07:55 PM
but I am going to try the bandaid trick.. thank you mariefromcanada!!
i have done the holding to the chest method with elmo before.. and if i scratch his head for long enough he begins to close his eyes.. but his beak isnt strong but he knows where to bite for pain..[/QUOTE]
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It works ! he came on my hands this evening. He tested the waters and took the opportunity to bit me hard and many times too !!! because the band aid wasn't on !!! LOL
It hurts but the pain is tolerable. He then came on my shoulders and fell asleep. HUrray !!!!! I am so happy :o)
It works !!!!! let me know your progress.
Marie:happy:
michael
08-13-2008, 09:10 PM
Ditto makes his own foraging fun. He'll move his food around between his normal food bowl, his veggie bowl and his treat cup. Then when he gets it all moved around he changes his mind and moves it around again. :rofl:
You know Dave, I think he might be looking for that mouse he was trying to fatten up for Thanksgiving dinner...........Poor Ditto :(.
Z28Taxman
08-13-2008, 09:52 PM
You know Dave, I think he might be looking for that mouse he was trying to fatten up for Thanksgiving dinner...........Poor Ditto :(.
I think he just wants croutons in his salad! :rofl:
Elmo does this new thing now...
Although, I am not allowed to touch him or have my hand near him in his home..
If I put him in the lounge room and then go to my bedroom.. he will start screaming.. and I sing out to him he will stop for a second and then start screaming again, until I bring him into the room that I'm in..
so now I have to bring him to what ever room I am going to stay in for a long time.. he's having a snooze on his perch at the moment..
does this mean he likes my company?... although I am not allowed to touch him at all?.. or is he just insane?
MariefromCanada
08-14-2008, 08:34 AM
Elmo does this new thing now...
Although, I am not allowed to touch him or have my hand near him in his home..
If I put him in the lounge room and then go to my bedroom.. he will start screaming.. and I sing out to him he will stop for a second and then start screaming again, until I bring him into the room that I'm in..
does this mean he likes my company?... although I am not allowed to touch him at all?.. or is he just insane?
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:)
HI Momo
your little tweetie bird is starting being attached to you and yes, this is a very good sign. As far as the hand goes, its normal.
KiKi bit me again this morning but he bit the band aid LOL. :omg: As I removed my finger, he striked again and I shouted NO ! Put my finger back in the cage and he protested and he bit the finger again but after a while, he stopped.
My trick to get him out his cage is I take his ladder and I tell him to come. He then jumps on it and I slowly take him out of his cage to put him beside me and then we play I talk to him.
Howeverm, when its time for hiom to go back in his cage, he must come on my hand even though he protests, I make sure he comes. Yes, oh yes, he bites and he bit me yesterday in the beginning but after he relaxed on my shoulder like I mentionned in another post. :D
Its the quality of time you spend with him that will reinforce your bond. My kiki still bites but thats OK, I dont mind. Must keep a positive attitude because if not, youre back to square one.
Keep me posted 8)
He finally ate some seed out of my hand.. my arm got so sore from holding it there.. >.<.. but he finally ate it yaaay...
unfortunately out of cage time involves elmo running away still as fast as he can..
michael
08-14-2008, 11:35 AM
Elmo does this new thing now...Although, I am not allowed to touch him or have my hand near him in his home..
If I put him in the lounge room and then go to my bedroom.. he will start screaming.. and I sing out to him he will stop for a second and then start screaming again, until I bring him into the room that I'm in..so now I have to bring him to what ever room I am going to stay in for a long time.. he's having a snooze on his perch at the moment..does this mean he likes my company?... although I am not allowed to touch him at all?.. or is he just insane?
Momo. Do you know the gender of your lovebird? Often, hens will be more protective of their cage and sometimes the perimeter around it. I would try using a small dowel and maybe see if he/she will learn to "step up" onto it instead of your finger. Like MariefromCananda mentioned about using a ladder to retrieve her lovebird from his cage, a small dowel or stick may provide Elmo with a way to exit his cage with more confidence. If this works, over time he may eventually accept your hand or maybe even your wrist. This would certainly be better than giving him the opportunity to bite as that can easily become a painful habit. How are you moving him from room to room? If your moving his cage, this could make him more reluctant to leave his cage. If possible, it may be best to try moving him (without his cage) to a neutral area away from his cage then practice "step up" there. If flying starts to hinder this whole process, then a mild wing clip may prove a good option. Because he's making contact calls or screaming when you leave him alone in another room, this could mean he's either starting to recognize you as part of his flock or he does not really like being moved. On the other hand, because lovebirds are "flock orientated", if he's making contact calls in anticipation of your presence, that could mean he's beginning to like your company................:) .
oh he will come put of his cage and then run in the opposite direction of me.. coming out i no problem.
i have tried the dowel but he hates that as much as my hand. i think i need to keep putting my hand in so he isnt so afraid
he spent the afternoon in my bedroom with me. if i had to go to the bathroom i had to do it lightening speed time otherwise elmo would get grumpy.
he comes and sit right up close to the side of the cage that im sitting near, although if I put my hand up to the cage he walks back.
I think elmo is a he, because he puts holes in paper rather than stripping it.
he isnt cage protective at all. if i put my hand in the cage, depending how he feels he will either run to the highest perch, normally early morning, or he just watches me hand like a hawk.
MariefromCanada
08-15-2008, 09:27 AM
Kiki is now comfortable with my hand. He spent the evening with me on my shoulders and we played together.
At one point, when he was on my had, he was looking at himself in the mirror and giving kisses. Too cute. :lol
I still have the put his ladder to pick him up but at least now, when he is outside of his cage, he now comes very easily on my hands. I was even able to touch him and stroke his back.
Finally !!!!:happy:
Very happy that the trust is starting to be established
elmo and i at this moment are sitting in the bath. he is on my wrist, but absolutely hates my hands. he's trying to go to sleep on my wrist but as i keep typing its not that comfortable. woops. sorry elms.
he has learn that biting skin the next right next to your nail is funfunfun. normally i can take his bites as i didnt wear a bandaid. oh looks like i am most def going to start.
how do i get him ok with my hands. he will take food off it and sit on my hands to get to the food but will take no part in head scratches or fingers with 5cms of him. i go to scratch my head atm and he's very cautious of it. yet he is fine to wobble on my arm as i type and try to go to sleep.
they are funny creatures.
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