Lots of problems >.<

[Pileot]

Good day! I am new here so first let me introduce myself

I am a 22 year old male living in centeral/western canada. We were given a pair of birds by my grandmother some time ago, and throughout the few years we have had them the birds we have has changed due to egg laying and selling/giving away birds. We had the original pair die on us, and to date we have three birds: two females and a male.

We at our house are not a creative lot, so the names are mother, chewy, and skitso. Yes, i know, brilliant names, but they work. (Skitso is the male). The mother bird laid several cluches of eggs, The first one is when we got Chewy, and the fourth or fifth is when we got skitso. Chewy is about a year and a half old, and skitso is coming on a year.

Problem 1
When chewy hatched, i am the one who tried to train her. I can handle her pretty well outside the cage, i enjoy playing with her and having fun. I swing her around and have her perch on my sholder, no problem, but when it comes to other people she freaks out. Unless the person is really comfortable with birds and takes control it seems she senses it and completely loses it. How do i get her to "play nice" with other people?


Problem 2
Originally i had chewy in one cage alone. It would take some coaxing to get her out, but it was often easy enough to have her hop on my finger as i stuck my hand in there. Since then we have had to house Skitso with chewy, and they had a clutch of eggs (none hatched) and Chewy is getting increasingly agressive while in the cage. If anyone gets near she charges the cage and if she can get your finger she will do as much damage as she can. When opening the cage to play with the birds she wont let you get anywhere near her. How do i reduce how agressive she is?

To combat this i have tried changing the cage shes in, moving stuff around, and recently added sort of a wire metal bottom to the cage so they cant make a nest, but its not helping. My fingers are getting rather scarred, and nothing i seem to be doing is helping. I think splitting chewy and Skitso up might help the problem (seemed to surface more when she was paired with another bird) but that leads to problem 3.


Problem 3
I Used to have Skitso and the Mama in the same cage, however one day they had at each other and drew blood. Trying to have the two females in the same cage is... a very bad idea. Chewy got a pretty nasty wound on her feet and back of the head, while the mama is still missing a chunk of her beak after one of their fights. How do i have the three birds play nice with each other, with Chewy being less agressive and everyone living in peace?





I could also use tips on punishment for the birds. I know these birds are intelligent, they know people, they know if your happy with them or not, and training them would be easy if i can punish them when they do something bad and encourage them when they do good, but what sort of punishments can i use? Some people have suggested flicking its beak, pinching its toes, and i read somewhere about lightly jiggling its pearch. Any opinions about these? what other suggestions do you have?




I have also heard about lovebirds eating fruits, vegtables, etc. but these birds dont seem to be interested in anything but their seeds. How can i encourage them to try different foods?


as you can see, i have a lot of questions. I have made due with what i can find, and figured most of what i know on my own. For the most part i think i have done well, people can handle the birds, and the ones we no longer have were hand tame, people could hold and pet them, but these three birds have me at a loss. any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[maya_exquisite]

Good day! I am new here so first let me introduce myself

I am a 22 year old male living in centeral/western canada. We were given a pair of birds by my grandmother some time ago, and throughout the few years we have had them the birds we have has changed due to egg laying and selling/giving away birds. We had the original pair die on us, and to date we have three birds: two females and a male.

We at our house are not a creative lot, so the names are mother, chewy, and skitso. Yes, i know, brilliant names, but they work. (Skitso is the male). The mother bird laid several cluches of eggs, The first one is when we got Chewy, and the fourth or fifth is when we got skitso. Chewy is about a year and a half old, and skitso is coming on a year.

Hi and welcome!! First things first, where are the pictures?? Hehehe. We LOVE pictures here!!


Problem 1
When chewy hatched, i am the one who tried to train her. I can handle her pretty well outside the cage, i enjoy playing with her and having fun. I swing her around and have her perch on my sholder, no problem, but when it comes to other people she freaks out. Unless the person is really comfortable with birds and takes control it seems she senses it and completely loses it. How do i get her to "play nice" with other people?

Sometimes that's just what happens. Mika and Kano are comfortable with me, but run as fast as they can when my bf tries to offer his finger or hand to them. Are your birds clipped? Being clipped can change the behavior of a bird dramatically... Also, a suggestion would be to have the other people who are wanting to be able to interact with Chewy to spend time doing things around the cage. Talk to her, eat around her, do whatever they do - but just do it by her cage. If you or they are able to supervise, you can have the cage door open as these other people do things and eventually Chewy may get curious and go near them. If she gets used to seeing these people all the time, maybe she'll be more inclined to "play nice."


Problem 2
Originally i had chewy in one cage alone. It would take some coaxing to get her out, but it was often easy enough to have her hop on my finger as i stuck my hand in there. Since then we have had to house Skitso with chewy, and they had a clutch of eggs (none hatched) and Chewy is getting increasingly agressive while in the cage. If anyone gets near she charges the cage and if she can get your finger she will do as much damage as she can. When opening the cage to play with the birds she wont let you get anywhere near her. How do i reduce how agressive she is?

To combat this i have tried changing the cage shes in, moving stuff around, and recently added sort of a wire metal bottom to the cage so they cant make a nest, but its not helping. My fingers are getting rather scarred, and nothing i seem to be doing is helping. I think splitting chewy and Skitso up might help the problem (seemed to surface more when she was paired with another bird) but that leads to problem 3.

When they had the clutch of eggs, how many were there? If there were more than six eggs, it's possible that both laid eggs and could explain why none hatched. Is Skitso a confirmed male? Chewy's aggressiveness is due to her hormones when she's "nesty"... some things you can do to reduce this behavior are to remove any and all things in the cage that could be viewed as nesting material. This includes paper, shreddable toys, a Happy Hut, etc. You can also reduce her daylight hours by bumping up her bedtime by an hour or so, giving her around 13 (rather than 12) hours of dark/sleep time. That's great that you're already rotating things around often, as that can deter the "nesty" feeling.


Problem 3
I Used to have Skitso and the Mama in the same cage, however one day they had at each other and drew blood. Trying to have the two females in the same cage is... a very bad idea. Chewy got a pretty nasty wound on her feet and back of the head, while the mama is still missing a chunk of her beak after one of their fights. How do i have the three birds play nice with each other, with Chewy being less agressive and everyone living in peace?

Parents and weaned offspring in the same cage seems to create problems, don't they? Thank goodness WE don't get attacked by our parents after we're 18 (although often get "the boot")!! I would suggest having all three in separate cages. Then you can place the cages side by side, with a couple inches in between to deter any foot biting through the bars. They'll still be able to interact with each other, but can't hurt each other. Then you can give them daily SUPERVISED play time together in a neutral setting - perhaps a play area set up on a table. You can start off with 5 or 10 minutes and see what happens. Then if they seem okay the first few days they're out, then bump up their time, so on and so forth. If they're not getting along in the 5 or 10 minutes, you can break up the "fights" with a loud clap of your hands or some people say "hey!" or the like.


I could also use tips on punishment for the birds. I know these birds are intelligent, they know people, they know if your happy with them or not, and training them would be easy if i can punish them when they do something bad and encourage them when they do good, but what sort of punishments can i use? Some people have suggested flicking its beak, pinching its toes, and i read somewhere about lightly jiggling its pearch. Any opinions about these? what other suggestions do you have?

Oh my... people have suggested beak flicking and toe pinching?!?! I know this is wrong to say, but the people who have suggested that probably punish their own kids in like manner. I have, however, heard of lightly "shaking" your finger when your bird is on it if he/she bites... it's just really hard because I don't know if lovebirds have the capability to think, "I got this punishment because I did something wrong." I would think they don't have that capability... for me, my "punishment" (used in quotes because I don't like that word) for Mika and Kano is usually a loud clap, "HEY!," or a squirt with a water bottle to stop whatever they're doing that's not okay at that moment. If Mika goes somewhere he shouldn't be, I slap my thigh and say, "Get back here!" and he comes back. Haha. I'm sure others will share their experiences with you and what works for them.


I have also heard about lovebirds eating fruits, vegtables, etc. but these birds dont seem to be interested in anything but their seeds. How can i encourage them to try different foods?

I went through this same experience... I made the mistake of not introducing fresh foods to Mika when he was a baby (he's 7 now). As time went on, I'd try to introduce a veggie to Mika and Kano and they wouldn't eat it. I'd have spurts of trying and giving up, trying and giving up. This went on for YEARS. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut I'm happy to say both Mika and Kano now eat carrots and broccoli if I prepare it a particular way, and they eat dried papaya!! What I did was I would introduce one fresh food to them daily for a week. So for example, I tried baby carrots for a whole week. Each day I would try to give it to them in a different way. One day was clipped to their millet clip, another day was in a snack bowl, another day was shredded, another day thinly sliced and steamed, etc. Well, they decided they liked it thinly sliced and steamed!!! Then I stuck with the carrot for a couple more weeks before moving on to another food, just because I didn't want them to forget about the yummy carrots. I moved on to broccoli and I chopped it up small and steamed, since that worked with the carrots. And they ate it!! So you gotta find what works for your birds and it may take a VERY long time, but well worth it!! :)


as you can see, i have a lot of questions. I have made due with what i can find, and figured most of what i know on my own. For the most part i think i have done well, people can handle the birds, and the ones we no longer have were hand tame, people could hold and pet them, but these three birds have me at a loss. any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

This place is a wealth of knowledge and I'm sure others will be along to give you their opinions and suggestions... these are just mine. :) Welcome to the forum!!

P.S. Don't forget PICTURES!! :happy:

[p3rr4n]

Thank you so much for the post and welcome to the community!!! :)


As far as punishment goes, none of the things you mentioned are appropriate in my eyes. In my experience training a happy a lovable lovie is more about positive reinforcement and bonding than anything else.


The only thing I will suggest when trying to teach behavior is to mimic a buzzer with your voice when the lovie does something you don't want it to do.... very short and not too loud. That works great with Trixie.

I always follow up the buzzer noise with a calm and loving explanation as to why he shouldn't do what he is wanting to do... believe me, these birdies understand more than most people would believe!!!

[bookworm0550]

instead of punishment, you can look for positive reinforcement rather than punishment. There's a lot of stuff online. all i know is that punishment does not work and it's mean to flick their beaks and pinch their toes. Training is supposed to be fun for them too, not something they want to avoid at all costs. perhaps you can ignore negative behaviors and reward good behaviors. Someone w/ training experience can probably tell you more as mine are spoiled and in need of training themselves. When i do training w/ mine, they seem pretty happy about it (probably cuz of the millet I have in my hand). You can look up clicker training as well.

as far as playing nice w/ other people, i know that if you aren't comfortable, the bird can sense it plus I think it shows in subtle ways that you aren't comfy handling the bird. and it's ok if she's not comfortable w/ folks who also are not comfortable. she doesn't have to play w/ them if she's not up for it. people who are not comfortable tend to be jittery and shaky and a bit scared themselves. would you trust someone like that? i know i wouldn't.

you should just put them all in separate cages. as far as them all playing nice, let me know when you figure it out cuz i have a trio and the baby gets picked on.

foods...keep making it and putting it for them to eat. it'll take awhile. good luck.

as far as the cage aggression goes, i dont know much about it nor have i experienced it yet.

[Pileot]

hey sorry its been soo long, i reinstalled my computer and lost the link to this forum >.< But im back now, so its all good!


Ok, punishment. These birds are incredabally smart. If you have a solid way of punishing them or showing them whats right and wrong, they will know. I used to have problems with chewy pooping on my sholder, but i was able to him to wait till i held him over a peice of paper, so i know they can learn. And they are very perceptive, it just takes time.


A few more things... Theres 6 people in my house, and were always running around so theres lots of noise and lots of activity. These birds are sort of in a main room so they get their fair share of stuff to see.

The main thing that has thrown me off is chewy's intense mood swing... a year ago she was friendly and now shes really... mean :/


There is nothing nesty in her cage, i realized she was making nests and tried stopping that already. the cage has a wire bottom and theres no houses or anything.

Chewy is confirmed female, Skitso is confirmed male.

i remember watching some show on TV years ago that used a "clicker" as a bad thing... its a sharp enough noise that you can use. Sort of like the "pop top" of glass bottles...

I will post more soon, but my computers acting up so i gotta cut this short. Thanks for the advice, and any more would be apreciated

[maya_exquisite]

Ok, punishment. These birds are incredabally smart. If you have a solid way of punishing them or showing them whats right and wrong, they will know. I used to have problems with chewy pooping on my sholder, but i was able to him to wait till i held him over a peice of paper, so i know they can learn. And they are very perceptive, it just takes time.

Showing them right from wrong is totally different from punishing. It seems that you "trained" your bird to poop on the paper, rather than punish him because he used to poop on your shoulder... at least that's what it seems like from what you've written. Lovebirds are smart, but they're like young children. Punishing young children for wrongdoings doesn't work really work, but when you show them right from wrong and why they respond a lot better. :) I would definitely love for Mika to not poop on my shoulder. Hehe.


A few more things... Theres 6 people in my house, and were always running around so theres lots of noise and lots of activity. These birds are sort of in a main room so they get their fair share of stuff to see.

The main thing that has thrown me off is chewy's intense mood swing... a year ago she was friendly and now shes really... mean :/

Lots of people "running around" in the area where the cage is will only get them used to people running around... if you want them to be able to "play nice" with them, those people need to take time daily to stop and spend quality time with them. At least, this is the conclusion I've gotten from my own experience. One of the best examples is that my bf is always in and out of the living room where the birds are, but doesn't spend any quality time with them. So on the off days where he goes to the cage and offers his finger, Kano runs into the cage and Mika runs as fast as he can to me.



There is nothing nesty in her cage, i realized she was making nests and tried stopping that already. the cage has a wire bottom and theres no houses or anything.

Chewy is confirmed female, Skitso is confirmed male.

i remember watching some show on TV years ago that used a "clicker" as a bad thing... its a sharp enough noise that you can use. Sort of like the "pop top" of glass bottles...

I will post more soon, but my computers acting up so i gotta cut this short. Thanks for the advice, and any more would be apreciated

I don't know anything about clicker training, so hopefully someone else can help you with that! :)

[momo]

clicker training, you can just make the click sound with your mouth. as long as the sound is generally consistent and at the right precise time it will work :)

[Bella]

Clicker training, as I understand it (certainly how it is used for dogs) is to mark good behaviour, not bad behaviour.

I cannot agree with physical punishment of birds. However making a noise that they dislike when they do something you don't like might work. On the other hand it may be hard to find a noise they don't like...

My initial approach if the bird started doing something I didn't like would be to try distraction and then praise like mad for a good behaviour offered instead. If you can find something that is acceptable that the bird already does then I would just start praising for that, in the hope that the bird would behave in that way more often rather than doing the bad stuff.

[Pips mom]

I would think that any kind punishing for a bird would NEVER have any kind of a positive outcome. People have to realize that birds don't think like we do, OR like dogs do! First thing here is that although lovebirds are smart and may know what they are doing is not acceptable......they also seem to have this overwhelming self control problem!! It's like they see something and they want it and they just cannot help themselves! They are VERY strong willed and persistant in some situations and I honestly believe that nothing, no punishment, will change that......maybe for a second, then the bird is back to square one again and will just keep doing what he wants! To me this is just a part of their personality, and with lovebirds, I'm sorry, but they just are not well behaved birds! It's who they are and you have to learn to love them for who they are. As far as being mean goes..... like Maya said, it's probably just a hormonal female and that is something also that you just have to learn to live with at times. My lovie bites......alot of them do....yeah I know it isn't fair......they feel free to punish us with a good bite when we do wrong, huh?
I guess what it comes down to is this..... they're lovies, you can try to do the best you can, but please don't expect too much from them. Yes, you can train them, BUT...don't expect them to always listen! I call my lovie my little monster! OH, he is a little handful! but underneath it all he is a playful, fun, social little guy, and I just love him for the good things and the way he is......I truly believe that if you just give them time and attention and alot of love and understanding, that you will start to see more of the good things in your lovies and maybe kinda overlook a little of the bad! In life you have to do that with people sometimes too!
As far as playing nice with other people goes......well, just let me say this......I have a bird of another species who is terrified of strangers! So much so that I have to take off her seed guard from her cage so it will fit through the doorways and move her into another room when we have company or she will freak out! We have tried with her, but honestly I think this is just something I have to accept as a fear that she has that I just won't be able to change......at least I know it's something that won't change at least for a very long time. It's the way it is as far as I'm concerned, I just try to do what I think is right and that is trying to accomodate her fear and keep her surroundings free from too many strangers.....at one time I mean!
To me this is her only fault.....she is such a wonderful, sweet loving bird and for me it's a small price to pay for her companionship!
This is just my own point of view of course from my experience with my birds and my lovie......but we have a happy life together and work it all out....I sure hope that you are able to do the same with your lovies and have as much fun with them as I have with mine!