Another bird, maybe not a lovie?

[momo]

Hi All,

I know I've posted about this before quite a bit.. but now I am super serious after months and months of deliberation.

I am looking to get a second fid. I am completely aware of the whole separate cage issues, not getting along issues.

I have a few questions in regards to this.

1. Elmo being 1 years old, does it matter what age I bring home? Would a baby still be suitable?
2. I am afraid of breeding, would a another type of bird be ok? Eg. Bourke, Budgie, (I know a budgie sounds like a terrible idea, I can see elmo shredding it to pieces..)
3. In terms of cage, I will be buying a bigger cage because elmo has had a few territorial issues before, if they do want to cage share. Do I need to ensure that neither of them have been in that cage prior to this? But I am still iffy on the cage sharing because of the breeding aspect.

At work, I have taken on alot more responsibilities and will be required there an extra day a week. But I am going to get a second bird, I have June/July off uni to see them through the transition period together.

Thoughts?

Edit --.. there is a bird that comes to visit elmo, a wild bird at the window. but elmo yells and flaps her wings at her. I'm not sure if this is a good sign for getting another bird?

[linda040899]

If you are thinking about getting a second fid, not necessarily a lovie, I would plan on having 2 cages. Some birds will become fast friends while others don't want to be in the same air space together. Any friendship that develops will have to be worked out between them. Think twice about a budgie. I've not seen many lovies and budgies that get along. Both have huge attitude problems and neither usually back down.....

If that second bird happens to be a lovie and you get a baby, you will probably have to keep them separate until the baby matures, particularly if Elmo is a hen. Most mature hens will not accept younger lovies, as those babies are clueless about everything adults already have learned.

I think side by side cages would work out great, at least in the beginning, as Elmo will have another bird to talk to, even if they can't initially play together.

[momo]

Thanks for the reply Linda.

Budgies are off the agenda. I was really internally against it.. but I thought I would put it out there just incase.

Would you suggest that I get a bird around the same age or older? I am afraid that maybe I have hurt elmos ability to understand bird language because shes spent her whole life around humans.

What are your thoughts on getting like a fischer/mask lovebird instead of getting a peach face? Will their temperaments be the same?

If I were to bring a baby home, would I need to wait until a year until I could really put them out together? Or would I just supervise their time together? Would the optimal thing be get a lovie who is the same age?

[LovelySydney]

Gus & Oslo had two cages and once used to one another STILL had two cages until they started sleeping in one another's cages all cuddled together (adorable). Then I felt they were OK in one cage, hence buying the HQ cage for them. I don't know if you will ever know how Elmo will react to another bird until you try it out. Also, Gus was a "hybrid", mixed between peach face & masked. Oslo was, as far as I can remember, a pied peach face? I know he was some sort of mix - either way he was super cute!!! I miss them both, a lot. Good luck in your decision, let us know!

[shylevon]

Budgies are off the agenda. I was really internally against it.. but I thought I would put it out there just incase. Budgies are also carriers of a lot of illnesses that affect lovies, so it is complicated to have them both in the same home. Not impossible by any means, but it can be a problem.

Would you suggest that I get a bird around the same age or older? I am afraid that maybe I have hurt elmos ability to understand bird language because shes spent her whole life around humans. Don't worry, Elmo is also afraid you have hurt your ability to understand bird language because you have spent your whole life around humans.:whistle: Sorry, I couldn't resist. Elmo is not much more than a baby, so a birdie his own age, more or less, would be great. A nice little friend to grow up with. Remember though, a lovie that has a feathered friend will sometimes not be as close to his human friend, even if she does understand bird language.

What are your thoughts on getting like a fischer/mask lovebird instead of getting a peach face? Will their temperaments be the same? Lord only knows with lovies.

If I were to bring a baby home, would I need to wait until a year until I could really put them out together? A year, are you kidding me? Just try to keep two lovies apart for a full year. Quarantine the new birdie for 30 days (a must, regardless of the age of the new birdie) then slow introductions (outside of the cage works best) until they are fast friends. A one year old lovie should take to a new friend quite quickly. Or would I just supervise their time together? Yup, after the first 30 days, and one wellness check with the birdie doctor to make sure new birdie is safe to be introduced to friends. Would the optimal thing be get a lovie who is the same age? Close to the same age is best, but don't sweat it. Anywhere up to about 2-3 years of age is close enough. (Birds can't really count)

[momo]

Hahah shylevon that made me lol throughout all of it.

I think the reasons birds can't count is because they don't have enough toes!

My only issue now is when I do introduce them.. I think elmo now sees the apartment as hers. there is not one room she hasn't claimed.. there is not one room that she does not have a favourite spot in.. beside the toilet. Will that affect the neutral ground needed for when introducing lovies.

Ok, the hunt is now on for a good lovie friend for elmo. Temperament, am I looking for a passive one? as she can be quite full on? is it ok to get one who is as feisty as she is? but somehow I think I'm going to be hard to find a soft tempered lovie . haha

[shylevon]

I think the reasons birds can't count is because they don't have enough toes!
Actually, there is a counting system that utilizes base 8. It is called octal and engineers and computer geeks use it all the time. We humans all evolved from apes, but computer geeks evolved from parrots. (That explains a lot, doesn't it?)

My only issue now is when I do introduce them.. I think elmo now sees the apartment as hers. It IS her's. She lets you live there, but it is none the less... hers. there is not one room she hasn't claimed.. Naturally. As they are all her's. there is not one room that she does not have a favourite spot in.. They are all her spots, favorite or not. beside the toilet. Toilet is her's too. Just wait till she stops letting you use it, then you'll know who it belongs to. Will that affect the neutral ground needed for when introducing lovies. Nope. As long as they are introduced away from the main domain (the cage) there should be no problem. There will be battles for supremacy, toes will be nibbled, wings will be flapped, beaks will be fenced, much namecalling will be chirped, there will surely be a raging battle over the top perch, but in the end they will work it out amongst themselves.

Ok, the hunt is now on for a good lovie friend for elmo. Temperament, am I looking for a passive one? Always, and preferably one that has not yet acquired a taste for human finger flesh. as she can be quite full on? Oh, they can ALL be quite full on. is it ok to get one who is as feisty as she is? but somehow I think I'm going to be hard to find a soft tempered lovie . Yes, now you are catching on... haha

[FuzzyAga]

This is a topic I go over in my mind ever so often, so I understand your position. I, too, have a female, and knowing what I now know, I would not have gotten a male peachfaced lovie, as much as I love Petey, that sweet, little gentleman.

This may be a sore point for some, but I would have tried my best to locate a male eyering-peachfaced hybrid for Juanita. A sterile male would have been perfect for Juanita, and perfect for me. It's my understanding that such a hybrid is sterile.

She would still lay eggs, and she would have a mate, but there would be no babies.

[momo]

shylevon you have been so much help thank you!!
I'm glad I'm catching on! Funny little side thing, there is a frosted window above the door of the toilet and if you're in there and Elmo hears.. she will come and sit on the ledge of the window and watch you. its so creepy.

FuzzyAga, I thought about finding a sterile male but it is the actual laying part that freaks me out with Elmo. I don't want her laying any eggs, I want to try to avoid that as much as possible. But I think a sterile male will be quite hard to find in Perth as well. I think if she does lay, I will just boil the eggs. Could you tell me a bit about how petey and your hen?

[shylevon]

I'm glad I'm catching on! Funny little side thing, there is a frosted window above the door of the toilet and if you're in there and Elmo hears.. she will come and sit on the ledge of the window and watch you. its so creepy.
She's making sure you don't abuse the privilages she is granting you. One wrong tinkle or an off-key kerplunk, and she's gonna snatch those pottie privilages away.

[momo]

She's making sure I put the toilet roll on the right way!

I was chatting to person on another forum and she was suggesting that I give elmo an clip so she won't land on the new birds cage. What are your thoughts on that? Having them out together obviously really supervised or should I give them separate out of cage time. While having their cages side by side and not touching.

i am also a little worried because elmo has been "presenting" herself to me and her toys for the past few months. She won't transfer her advances towards the new fid if I bring it home? if so what should I do about that?

[Angelic vampyre]

An idea would be to get a Green Cheek. I have seen them get on great. A few of my friends who have Lovies have tried other birds and gotten no where and then gotten a green cheeks and the green cheeks seem able to stand up to the lovies. Just a thought

[Pips mom]

I am also considering a lovie friend for Pip, in the hopes that he will lighten up a little on his love for Ivy! He drives her nuts! He appears to really love her alot, so now I'm wondering if he will give that up for another lovie! Pip is pretty social though and I think he'd take well to another lovie, but it will be interesting to see how it affects his feelings for Ivy! Also....as sure as I am that Pip would like another lovie friend.....I am totally unsure of what another lovie would think of him! so it's always in the back of mind and making me feel a little worried about them getting along. I feel like I am the one picking out this lovie and I better find the RIGHT one and do a good job! I never considered trying to find a different kind of bird for Pip......even though I think he'd stand a good chance of liking any bird I would bring into the house, I have reservations about the bird I get liking Pip.....he can be a bit overbearing at times! so this is the reason I wanted to get another lovie....I think another lovie will stand the best chance of understanding Pip's lovie ways! As much as Ivy does like Pip......he is just too much for her sometimes and she tries to get away from him. They used to eat together just fine in the morning with the plate of veggies......now Ivy grabs a bean and runs over to her own cage to eat it, all scared Pip will try to take it from her! I am hoping that a new friend for Pip will help give Ivy some needed peace without me having to always put Pip back in the cage for her to get it!
It's funny, with Elmo, you are worried what SHE will think and how SHE will like a new friend.....with Pip, I have little doubt he would be chasing after another lovie thinking.....be my friend! He just seems to love all other birds.....he's not real picky! for me, it's the idea of the new addition not liking Pip. I sure hope that I am lucky enough to pick out a friend that will like him and be happy here!

[shylevon]

I was chatting to person on another forum and she was suggesting that I give elmo an clip so she won't land on the new birds cage. What are your thoughts on that? Yes, definately. Having them out together obviously really supervised or should I give them separate out of cage time. While having their cages side by side and not touching. Together, I would think best. Have a squirt bottle close at hand, and adjust the spray to be able to get across the room. If anything looks to be getting out of hand a zap of water will put things in order and no one gets hurt or has to retreat, which can be embarrassing for a birdie trying to impress another. A shot of water can get across the room far faster than you can and the surprise of getting hit takes birdies mind off any confrontation.

i am also a little worried because elmo has been "presenting" herself to me and her toys for the past few months. She won't transfer her advances towards the new fid if I bring it home? She probably will, but that is birdie nature. Presenting ones self just means she wants to be friends or is feeling al little amorous. No harm in that. You may want to avoid petting her on the back while she is presenting, as this can send her into a laying cycle. if so what should I do about that? Nothing, enjoy the show. I have females that mate with females and males that mate with males. I even had one lovie that was actively bi-sexual and shared her time between her female and male mates all in the same cage. A few beaks got out of joint, but that's what birdies do.

[momo]

Oh, I learnt alonnngg time ago not to touch elmos back with her wings outcome and her butt sticks up. She hardly presents to me any more.. just specific toys she can rub her bottom on.. Shylevon can I ask why it's bad if a Elmo lands on the new birds cage? Is it a dominance thing? If I have elmo out and the new fid in his or her cage with the door shut will that still be a problem? I am really reluctant to clip elmo. I know the new fid i have my eye on is clipped. Is it better to introduce them when I am holding the new fid, or let the new fid walk alone with elmo? When I have their cages side by side for a few days, with having no time out together, what are the signs that Elmo will play nicely?

Pips Mom I totally understand where you are coming from. Don't you wish you could just take them to a birdy place and see who pip will pick.. dam these diseases! Maybe you need to find a birdy who is like pip.. the overbearing girlfriend/boyfriend. They can cuddle each other all day long.. Think positive I'm sure what ever lovie you bring home will love Pip. I'm sure Ivy would REALLY appreciate it!!

Angelic vampyre as much as I would LOVE to get a GCC, I'm not brave enough yet.. hahaha.. sounds terribly but I feel like they're a bit out of my depth, thank you for the suggestion though :D:D

[thebubbleking]

The reason you dont want the new lovie is two fold, one it makes the other jealous and two and most importantly there will be foot bites and possible toe,nail loss or worse if they reach each others eye etc.

[Enko_chan]

You don't want them landing on each other's cages because its likely to end in a missing toe!

Good luck with your search. Now that Freyja's nesty, I am so glad she has Odinn. That and they are just so darned sweet together.

[momo]

bubbleking you have a multifid house.. how do you handle everyone? esp when you introduce a new one?

I'm really petrified of the toy biting.. but elmo has become alot calmer with her possessions.. I can take her food and water bowl out of her cage without losing a finger.. she watches intently.. but doesn't lunge at me any more!!

[FuzzyAga]

Glad to talk about my two lovies! I have only Juanita and Petey to go by as they are my first lovebirds. I've had Juanita for three years and Petey for one year.

During quarantine the two called to each other constantly. After quarantine, they were in separate cages at opposite ends of the family room, where they live, and because Juanita is fully-flighted (mildly disabled) the instant I opened her cage door, she flew to Petey's cage and stayed there, walking all around it, opening her beaks occasionally. Of course, an open beak is a mild threat which says go away/stay away. Petey stayed on the bottom of the cage and watched her. For three-days there was a variation of this scenario, but there were no arguments, fighting, beaking, and increasingly, Petey (still fully-flighted from his previous owner who was nice, but kept him in his cage and never let him out) was starting to pace back-and-forth, clearly wanting out.

On the fourth-day, I let Petey out. I was nervous, but Juanita was tame and I felt that if I could control Juanita, I could control Petey. Petey courted her persistently but it took a while for Juanita to accept him. It was several months before they mated. At night, they slept apart in separate cages. Petey was always the one who yielded to Juanita in any argument. Still does.

Petey learned to step-up by watching Juanita and I worked on it a bit with him, but I didn't work ourselves into a lather over this. Twice a day I would do this, but otherwise, I just talked to him, hand-fed him, and tried to make friends with him. His idea of step-up is to hop on my shoulder but I don't mind. This is good enough for Petey.

It's possible your hen might lay eggs without a male. If you get another hen, and they start to set up house, they may start to lay eggs. With Juanita, she never laid eggs as a spinster, but she was doing the swishy dance on my head before Petey, and even after Petey. Boy, if Petey sees this, he gives an angry squawk and flies to my head, too! Just this afternoon, Juanita swished on my head.

If you get a male, you'll definitely get (fertile) eggs. If you get a hybrid, you'll definitely get (sterile) eggs. If you get a female, you'll get eggs (you have to figure out who's laying them?) If she stays single, you may get eggs. I know you want to stay away from egg laying, but you're kinda boxed in, as I see it. Sorry. :( Their (male and female) drive and mission in life is to produce eggs. That's how Juanita is. That's how Petey is.

I have to substitute plastic eggs because Juanita eventually eats the boiled eggs. One time a partially eaten boiled egg sat there in her nest, rotting. Of course, this was before I knew what to look for. Now, this doesn't happen.

It's difficult to find a buddy for a resident female because of their feistiness and territorial behavior, while males are easy to pair up. Two females in an argument wouldn't back down and that gets scary. Your decision wouldn't be easy, momo. There certainly wouldn't be a perfect solution, IMHO--just something imperfect that will work in your world.

Good luck.

[momo]

Thanks for your story Fuzzy! I really appreciate it!
How old were your fids when they were introduced?

I'm finding it really hard to find baby lovies at the moment. Most of them are adult lovies that have spent their life in an aviary. I'm just a bit worried because my house isn't suited to QT. Do you think that an older one would be suitable? Will age play a factor, I was thinking finding one younger because elmo is older and will be the "alpha bird"

Other birds I am looking at, please tell me if any are suitable.

Princess Parrots
Rosa Bourkes
Red Rumps

[FuzzyAga]

Glad to share with you. Juanita was estimated to be about two when I found her outside, so she was three-years-old when she met Petey. Petey was about one-and-a-half-years old when he met Juanita.

I did a quick search and of the three you are considering, Rosa Bourkes seems to be the best, as "it's an excellent beginner's bird. It socializes well with other bird species." The question is will Elmo socialize well with Rosa? Everything depends on the personalities of the two birds.

As for the Red Rumps--"can be aggressive." Don't need that.

Princess parrots--"they like to go on the ground...often passive...need to worm them frequently." Doesn't sound like a good mix with an outgoing lovie, IMHO.

You may want Elmo to remain the alpha bird but that depends on the personalities of the parrots. A younger bird will not always be the subservient one--again, it depends on the personality of the young one. My last advice is don't get a baby lovie for Elmo, IMHO.

Before we got Petey, we bought a 5-month old lovie, gender unknown at the time. Juanita tormented this poor little baby relentlessly, nipped her (her DNA test came back) tail feathers, her feet, and chased after her. I spent most of my time rescuing the youngster. Fortunately, the bird store took the baby back. I didn't want to give her up, but domestic life was very difficult for all so I made the difficult decision to return her.

Don't be discouraged. :) It's good that you're thinking this through.

[bookworm0550]

constant supervision. that's what i did when i got pantalaimon. i watched over him like a hawk. i was living in a studio apt so i didn't have another room to contain Pan in. So the birds would take turns being out of their cages. I had to put a sheet on the top part of evie and joey's cages so that they wouldn't grab Pan's cute little feet when he was up there. that drove them nuts that they couldn't see where Pan was cuz they knew he was up there somewhere, but oh well. Now, Pan's the one I watch to make sure he's not doing the toe biting. after awhile, when things got settled in a bit, i'd let them all out together, but still w/ supervision.

now, when i got evolet, i had nothing to worry about cuz her and joey became best friends right off the bat. joey was so in love w/ her, feeding her, following her around, and preening like crazy. I think she found him quite annoying at times. so yeah, my two experiences of introducing birds to one another.

I wish you lots of luck. introducing new birds makes me nervous.

[momo]

So now I have brought home a baby.. well I don't think its a baby..
As much as I would love to take more photos I'm just letting Untitled.. as the name is until I find one.. settle in. Untitled seems to be ok. Alot better than what Elmo was when she first came home.

I feel alot more calm in bringing another fid home as I felt.. horribly.. I made all my mistakes with Elmo. But Elmo's turned out good so it couldn't have been that bad.

I know Untitled is a fischer, but can anyone tell me what sort.. if Untitled has any mutations or anything.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8978/dsc00609f.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6028/dsc00610o.jpg

Can anyone guess how old untitled may be?
Untitled is SO small compared to Elmo.

[shylevon]

He looks like a violet fischers. What a pretty birdie.

[momo]

This is one from the behind.
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/405/dsc00615y.jpg

I have been looking on the net about his colours.. but nothing I have seen is similar.

He's really settling in.. walking all around his cage.. jumping here and there.. settled in quite quickly!

[bookworm0550]

momo, your new bird is so cute.

[dani]

I even had one lovie that was actively bi-sexual and shared her time between her female and male mates all in the same cage. A few beaks got out of joint, but that's what birdies do. shylevon, I have birds that are bi- sexual and bi- species-ual... *sigh. Lovie wants to get romantic with the Amazon, macaw is interested in the rabbit etc.

Momo that is a pretty bird!!! I hope you tell him so every day! I just want to scritch him and go awwww....