Advice from the Vet I am having trouble with

[Mary]

Hi,
I just took my lovebird Houdini for his annual check up at the Avian vet.
I had some concerns about behavior-- he is chewing our mini blinds and destroying them.

The vet told me that Houdini should not be on our shoulders or anywhere on our bodies and that we should train him to sit on a perch only-- to watch tv with us for example and that he should have a jungle gym type thing -- and that is the ONLY place he should be outside of his cage.

Houdini is 3 years old and a member of our family. He sits on our shoulders and often goes around the house-- attached to us as we do normal household activities. He even eats from his own plate while we have dinner, and loves certain grains, fruits and veggies.

We have been going to this vet ever since we have had Houdini and she has never said this to me before. I am wondering how others treat their birds.

She told me that birds are not used to close contact like this, but our bird seems to like it. Is this behavior really harmful?


Thanks for any help!
Mary :)

[Bubblelady]

Advice from me:
Ignore the vet's advice! Maybe even find another vet!!!

[linda040899]

Hi Mary,
I emphatically have to disagree with your vet! Houdini chews/destroys your mini blinds because parrots chew (lovebirds are parrots!) and all you can do is offer him more interesting, legal things to chew!

I take it that Houdini is a single lovebird, which makes your family his "flock." In the wild, he would have companion lovebirds to fulfill his social needs. Since he doesn't, your family becomes his flock. To keep him strictly on a perch or play gym would make him a very unhappy lovebird. This advice tells me that your vet may be good with medical problems but he/she knows very little about parrot behavior and social needs!

Check this thread for a link that has great information on foraging for parrots:
http://www.lovebirdsplus.com/community/showthread.php?t=15447

[Jally]

Just the thought that Peanut would stay on a playstand or a perch while I watched TV is just absolutely hilarious!! And makes me think that this vet doesn't know much about lovebirds.

LOL at the birds at the table!! Us, too. We usually have 2-6 people and at least 3 birds sometimes more at our table. Not to mention the 4 dogs on the floor waiting for their bites. Although one dog is usually on my daughter's lap if she is home from college.

The more the merrier!! :)

[linda040899]

Any meal in my house without a feathered body in attendance is completely unheard of! It just doesn't happen and I'm completely OK with that. I don't like eating alone, either! :lol

Mary,
Sounds like you have a very happy lovebird and I would not change routines. You can add foraging toys to re-direct his interests but that's about the only change I would make at the moment!

[Pips mom]

Oh my.....Pip makes himself at home wherever he wants to here! I love when he gets on my shoulders (well...except for when he chews holes in my shirt!!) and even when he gets on my head. We actually encourage him to be on us this way, as he tends to want to spend time with other birds over us! he's a lovebird, so of course his choices won't always be the best ideas.....they love getting into trouble! BUT there is only so much you can do. Mine is determined to get where he wants to go, and trying to keep him in one place is pretty much impossible!
I agree with Jally....this vet must not know much about lovies!

[Mary]

Thank you all so much!

My husband and I feel very strongly about Houdini and we both LOVE having him on us. We did not think there was any harm in this, and I had read that they do bond to you when you have a single Lovie.

I am also wondering about wing clipping. It is included in his annual physical but should probably be done more than once a year. I am not sure I can do it myself because someone has to restrain the bird while the clipping is done.

I guess part of me would rather have destroyed blinds and a happy lovebird, than a bird that sits on a perch. If I wanted that, I would have bought a stuffed bird!!!
Thanks for all of your replies.
I really appreciate it!

Mary:)

[Mary]

PS
The vet sent me to goodbirdinc.com for training tips.
I think Houdini and our family are happy the way we are!
:)

[Gator]

I just have to add my two cents of opinion. My birds are part of my family, they eat with us, they watch tv while on our shoulders or on the couch, they sit on top of the laptop while typing, they ride all over us as we go about washing clothes and doing household chores.............your vet isn't exactly wrong, but she isn't right either.

Birds feel dominant when they are above us or on our shoulders and most trainers advocate not allowing them to do this in order to remain in control:rofl::rofl::rofl: as though we ever had control. They do dominate us, they do dictate to us................:whistle::whistle: keep you routine, your bird is happy and so are you.

[momo]

goodbirdinc.com is run by Barbara Heidenreich ... who i love. she teaches positive reinforcement.


she has a free podcast.. i think youd be interested in the myths and misconceptions.. it deals with birds wanting to be high up. i think its fantastic. :)

http://www.markiac.addr.com/PET_LIFE_RADIO/wingspg.html


i think if you are happy having a flight bird and have ensured your house is birdproof there is no reason to clip him. i find my bird has a better temperament being flighted rather than clipped

[Gator]

That is kinda what I meant momo, I think alot of what we hear is baloney, we should allow our birds to be birds...............and if that means they dominate us, so be it. Didn't mean to give the impression I think we shouldn't allow them to be on our shoulders, above our heads, etc. Mine are always above me somehow.

[Enko_chan]

So long as my birds are step-up trained, and will step off a shoulder when commanded to, I have never had any kind of dominance trouble with them being on my person. This idea that birds who are physically "above" have problems with feeling in charge is just something I have never experienced. Many would emphatically disagree, and other emphatically agree- no one knows for sure. My birds also chewed the blinds so they are no longer allowed near them. They have play stations around my house away from the blinds. Problem solved. I know it may not be that simple if you don't have that kind of control over your birds, but it is something to work on. I suggest setting up play areas away from the blinds.

[FuzzyAga]

Dominance? Just the fact that my two fly means they have dominance. But I've never felt any concern about dominance from my two lovies. As long as they step-up and obey the "Don't" command, they can chew my clothes, poop anywhere (although Juanita is partly potty-trained), scream in my ear, bite me, and generally act like birds.

We have come to an understanding and they are so easy to take care of. I don't know why I ever thought they were difficult.

[Enko_chan]

That is important too, Fuzzy- my birds understand NO and DON'T and Step up! Aside from that, they can do anything that I don't think is unsafe for them. There's a balance of power. There are things they don't want me to do, they have a way of communicating this with me, and I respect the boundaries. The same goes with the boundaries Chris and I set for them- like no going on the floor and no chewing the blinds (both for their safety- they're small enough to be stepped on, and the blinds are ANCIENT, who knows what they're made of.) Not everyone understands that many of us feel that the birds share the home and are part of the family and are trying to establish not exactly a balance of power, but a complete dominance over their birds- that is just not so with us. Not all avian vets actually have avian companions. Though I trust our vet when it comes to the medical stuff, and he handles them expertly, his area of expertise is not in actual taming, training and the dynamics of avian companionship!

[Janie]

Just the thought that Peanut would stay on a playstand or a perch while I watched TV is just absolutely hilarious!! :)


My thoughts exactly! The worst money I ever spent for my birds was a playstand. They used it for one thing only......it had food dishes attached and they'd land for a second or two to eat! Lots of poop was collected on that thing so I finally got rid of it. I'd also agree that your vet doesn't know much about lovebirds.

[Pips mom]

we should allow our birds to be birds...............and if that means they dominate us, so be it.

This is exactly how I feel......they have to be able to be themselves....the little birdies they are! I also agree that they are smart enough for us have an understanding between between us and our lovies. Lovies I think just are so excited about some things that they just can't control themselves.....gotta have that, gotta get there, and boy they know how to get what they want! I too, have never experienced any kind of dominance thing from being on shoulders or heads...I think Pip just prefers those spots for his own lovie reasons....they're cozy....there's hair to preen...I feel safe here! I love seeing my birds be birds and try to allow them as much freedom as possible....as long as nobirdy will get hurt, then it's pretty much allowed! even if it's messy!:rotfl

[Mary]

Well, interestingly I have tried "NO" with Houdini for chewing the blinds.
It doesn't seem to work. The vet told me no animal understands "No" and I have a hard time believing that.

She does have a bird of her own, a cockatiel I believe. I don't think what she is telling me is necessarily wrong, it is just not my philosophy of raising a bird I guess! I want him to be on us if that is what he wants. He doesn't hurt us when he is on us-- just preens or mostly hangs out.

Thanks again for all of the advice. I was looking for people who believe the same way I do and I guess I found them. I really think Houdini wants to look out the window-- our windows are at or just above ground level, and once he gets there, the blinds are there-- they are pulled all the way to the top.

Mary :)

[bookworm0550]

i'm like everyone on here too when it comes to hanging out w/ their birds. the only thing i don't do is eat w/ them while they are out. Once joey flew into my bowl of spaghetti and that was not fun so now i eat w/ them while they are inside their cages. other than that, i let them ride around on me. i always give Pan a hitch from one place to another when i see him debating if he should fly from one area of the room to another.

[Bella]

The vet told me no animal understands "No" and I have a hard time believing that.


I have heard the same said of dogs, even. Mine understand "no" to a certain extent but it is actually a hard concept for animals to grasp. Far easier is to teach something to actually "do" (such as step up) and redirect away from the unwanted behaviour, rather than asking them to stop. They may stop but in fairly short order think "Now what?" and often go back to what they were doing before.

As for the shoulder thing, I do remember someone once remarking that there is a reason why pirates often have an eye missing! But I am with you - if what you are doing works and everyone is happy, why change it?

[LovelySydney]

Baloney!!! I think (like someone else posted on here) the vet was saying that so you would be more in control of your bird, but who here is actually in control or their birds? LOL we all know they control us!!! I love having Oliver interacting with us on a daily basis and having him involved in everything we do. It makes him social and it makes him a part of our family which is exactly what he is - family!! I wouldnt have pet if I didnt want them to be near me or around me, thats what a pet is, even a bird!!:rofl:

As far as the chewing, yes, birds chew EVERYTHING. You can buy some chew toys to put in his cage so that he chews less on your blinds and more on a shredding toy. I have 3 shredding toys for Oliver and he loves them. I move them about once a week too so he thinks he has new things to shred, LOL.

[Jally]

I don't believe that there isn't an animal that understands no. My dogs understand ah ah and my mom says that is because it is German for no (don't know if that is true or not...)

[FuzzyAga]

Oh, yeah, Jally--"ah! ah!" that's the sharp sound I was trying to think of that my two lovies understand, as in, "Ah! Ah! Don't!"

I didn't get such a big response from using "No!"

[wilkiecoco]

kiwi understands no but chooses to ignore me - that's my story and I'm sticking to it!! :)

[Chickobee]

We also let our birds ride on our shoulders and walk all over us when we watch TV and do things around the house. The only area that is off limits is the kitchen when we are using the stove. Oh, the checks and bills are also not OK!

They also spend a lot of their out of cage time on the three playstands and the window sill in the living room. They will climb, play, eat, take baths and generally socialize going around to all of them. We have ladder bridges and climbing ropes so when they don't fly from one place to another they can walk and climb.

There are always treats and bird baths at the play area so when they get out of their cages that is where they go immediately. All we have to do is open cage doors.

On a few occasions we haven't properly latched a cage door so we've had birds out all day while we were gone to work. We've never seen evidence that they've gone exploring in the rest of the house but the play area by the windows is a disaster. It's nice knowing that their favorite spot is also where we want them to be. :)