So very sad

[Pips mom]

I recieved news yesterday from someone I know that their little lovie boy got sick and died, then when she tried contacting the breeder she got this lovie from, she found out that her site was shut down and a note was posted that her flock was infected with PBFD. I found the site.....http://www.littlewingaviary.com/ I think she told me there were 81 birds that were put down because of this.....this breeder had all her birds euthanized.....I think most, if not all were lovies. To make matter worse, anyone who got a lovie from this breeder has now exposed any other birds they have to PBFD including someone I know.....her flock....several budgies and several parrotlets,two lovebirds, two cockatiels and their two babies that are probably around weaning age, a male eclectus, a meyers, and a green cheek conure. Little Buttercup, her baby boy that died, she had him for three months, so even quarantine for one month would have been not enough. I feel just terrible for her now.......her parrotlets were breeding and having babies she could sell to good homes.....cockatiels had two babies too....now, no more babies, and all of her flock has probably been exposed. How very sad to read that site and see that this woman put down all those birds....I sure hope that they get the vaccine for this soon!

[linda040899]

I am very sorry to hear about this! PBFD is a devestating disease and there seems to be more of it around than I realized. Each and every time you purchase a new bird, go to a pet shop, bird show or anywhere there are birds, you run the risk of bringing disease back with you attached to your clothing, hair or even skin.

There is a vaccine in the works but it's a preventative, not a cure. Not sure when it will be ready for avian use.

[Flip]

Oh my god I burst into tears when I read her note. This is just devastating, and I can't even imagine.

[Jally]

Ohno! That is just devastating! I feel so badly for that breeder and for the lady who lost her baby boy. :(

[Jally]

I reread her letter on her site because I missed the part where she had her flock put down. I couldn't imagine having to make that decision. Was that really necessary for her to do? :(

[LovelySydney]

I just went to her site - I feel so bad for her!! Having to make the decision to put all her birds down:very_sad:I cant even imagine, those helpless birds. I know that these things DO happen and they are probably relatively easy but I hate seeing it happen to people who do everything by the book and really care about their birds. I have heard of this aviary before and Im positive I have been to the website before this news.

That is just so sad - makes you really think about getting your birds a well bird exam before ever concluding that they are healthy.

[linda040899]

Was that really necessary for her to do? :(
Unfortunately, yes.

If you are a single bird owner or only have a couple, that choice becomes a personal one. However, her aviary is a business. Theoretically, a business is supposed to support itself or the breeder has to find a way to support/feed a lot of birds with no revenue to offset expenses.

While I'm a breeder, I haven't declared my aviary to be a business. It's a personal hobby and I foot the expenses when there are no sales to offset what I spend on my birds. In all the years I've owned Lovebirds Plus Aviary, I don't remember even one year where I even broke even. Too bad I can't claim my birds as my dependents for income tax purposes! :whistle:

[Pips mom]

If you ask me, people shouldn't be allowed to have that many birds to breed, that they can't afford them if they aren't making money off of them....at least not until after a vaccine is found for this. For now people should only have smaller aviaries that they could afford to care for if something like this happened, instead of putting ALL those birds down...poor little innocent things. I see now why there are groups that try to stop the breeding of birds.....who could blame them for feeling this way after something like this. Not that breeding birds should cease, but there shouldn't be situations like this where the birds have to be put down because of the money.

[linda040899]

Best case scenario for her situation would have been to have kept all the birds alive and see who displayed visual symptoms. With PBFD, abnormal new feathers are a sure sign and the bird would have to be put down at that point or let the disease run its course. Very few survive so even smaller aviaries could have resulted in the same end, just not quite as fast.

In the case of my own birds (again), I have 2 aviaries in completely different locations and air spaces. Should I have something like this develop in one, it's not an automatic death sentence for everyone. Housing larger numbers of birds in different locations is also a possibility.

Here is a link to a site called Ellen's Parrots - http://www.ellen-parrots.com/ She lost a young African Grey to PBFD (Tommy) and, as a result of Tommy having PBFD, many of her other birds had to be euthanized.

[Enko_chan]

This is the hardest part of loving our birds. I just read Ellen's story. How awful.

After what happened with Enko chan and Loki, every time I look in my bird's cages my insides are in knots until I see them looking whole and healthy. Before this, we'd lost birds to a cat, to grief from loss of a partner, from old age (liver disease, tumors, heart failure, infection), one from horrible neglect of a bird-sitter while my mother was in the hospital when we were kids, and one flying out an open door... but nothing hits as hard as a disease that can affect the whole aviary. I'll never forget the grief that poor Enko's breeder went through. Fortunately, her main aviary was separate from the place where she bred the lovebirds and it wasn't affected. As for my other poor lost bird, his breeder, to this day, has not admitted the disease came from his aviary (the bird died less than 2 days after bringing him home from a virus that takes 2 weeks to incubate) and actively tried to sell this bird's parents to a friend of mine after finding out they were infected. I never asked him for money, not what I paid for the bird, or for the vet and necropsy bills, which were exorbitant. Even if everyone were careful and scrupulous these diseases would still be a threat, and some breeders and shop owners are considerably less-than.

Kudos to the breeder for alerting her customers. As for why she had to euthanize- I know how hard it must have been for her, and I am sure it had, in part, to do with money, but the way this disease is- highly contagious and up to 90-day incubation, and even more time until the birds are symptomatic- AND the birds that survive could still infect other birds! This is something she would be dealing with- emotionally and financially- for years to come. Every time she had all negative tests, she would have to wait 90 days and re-test everyone. Every time another one came up positive, all the anguish and vet bills, and the knowledge that more birds are likely to become infected. Think of all this while not making any income from your primary business!

With my fish- each fish is in an individual tank, except the babies until they are juvenile, at which time the males are separated out, and the females I wish to keep for my breeding program. Each fish has an individual net. Its a pain, but I used to keep my breeder females all together, and had ONE who managed to hide her parasite infection past quarantine and infected and killed most of my stock and caused the rest to require treatment. Now, treatment of fish is done in the home, and the meds are pricy but NOWEHERE near the costs of keeping an aviary running, and paying for medical treatment. It breaks the heart, and I am not sure I wouldn't have gone the more painful and expensive route myself, but I completely understand why she had to do it. How very very sad.

[prison city]

I also have a Little Wing Aviary lovebird. I've had Louie just over 5 weeks. I had just put him with my other birds when I found out but I have separated him again from my cockatiel, Bumble Bear and young budgie.Elmo, but I feel I've closed the barn door after the horse got out. We are going to the vet tomorrow to be tested.

Do breeders normally test for PBFD?? I wonder if the bird mill breeders of budgies in Florida test. They send thousands of birds to pet stores. Who knows what those little guys are infected with.

Louie looks and seems fine,but that's what is scary about this disease. I am praying and hoping he will test negative.I'm worried sick about all my birds. I did contact the breeder and she stated a random test was done, I don't know how many birds were tested. My heart goes out to the friend who lost her lovebird and now all her birds are at risk. What a nightmare!! Will let you know the results of the test when we get it.

[Enko_chan]

^ My heart goes out to you.

If I may make a recommendation- if your lovebird tests negative, continue to keep Louie in quarantine for another 90 days, or longer, until you can test again. It can take 90 days for the disease to incubate AND much longer until they become visibly symptomatic. Until the disease manifests in the feathers, from my understanding, false negatives are likely. I know how stressful this is- we had polyomavirus. Unfortunately, we lost both birds, and cleaned with bleach and APF before waiting a while until new birds came home.

Your flock is in our thoughts.

[prison city]

We are back from the vet. Louie was a brave little guy. He got stuck in the neck with a needle, weighed, nails done and got his leg band off. Whew!!!

He was certainly glad to get home. I should have the results in a week. I know it is going to be a very long week. The vet said I could put Louie back with my other birds, but I disagree and am keeping him apart. Will keep you posted.

[linda040899]

^ My heart goes out to you.

If I may make a recommendation- if your lovebird tests negative, continue to keep Louie in quarantine for another 90 days, or longer, until you can test again. It can take 90 days for the disease to incubate AND much longer until they become visibly symptomatic. Until the disease manifests in the feathers, from my understanding, false negatives are likely. I know how stressful this is- we had polyomavirus. Unfortunately, we lost both birds, and cleaned with bleach and APF before waiting a while until new birds came home.

I could not agree more with this! If Louie has not been around your other birds, there's no sense in exposing them unnecessarily!

[belenny]

Really sad...

In Spain this disease is very common too. When will they find a vacuum? :(

[Pips mom]

Really sad...

In Spain this disease is very common too. When will they find a vacuum? :(

I'm sorry....I know this is a serious subject, but that just made me laugh! and I am by no means laughing at your english Belen, you're english is great! In fact your english is SO good that I can barely tell that you normally speak another language! Vacuum is what we use on the carpet though....you know...to clean up after those messy birdies! You mean....vaccine, which I really hope they are able to get this vaccine out soon....it will save so many birdie lives!
Prison City.....I am hoping hard for you that your lovie is fine and PBFD free. I kinda thought when I read your other post that you might have gotten your lovie there. From what I know, that breeder was a reputable one and the friend of mine also got her first two lovies from there. She had her lovie boy that died for three months, and there is another one that she bought and gave to a friend who is still doing well and was bought from that aviary three months ago. Best wishes to you and Louie.

[belenny]

I'm sorry....I know this is a serious subject, but that just made me laugh! and I am by no means laughing at your english Belen, you're english is great! In fact your english is SO good that I can barely tell that you normally speak another language! Vacuum is what we use on the carpet though....you know...to clean up after those messy birdies!

Hahahaha :rofl:
In spanish it´s said "vacuna", so I invented because I knew it was said in a similar way. I´m sorry! xD

In Spain big parrots are always sold tested about the disease, but small ones doesn´t... The price of a lovebird here is about 30 € and that test is about 150 €. Breeders who have a lot of them prefer not to do it because they want to save money.

Now they´re thinking about it because there is a new lab in Chile and test is cheaper, but you have to send the blood...
It´s called "Bioingentech Chile" and each test is about 5 €.

[Enko_chan]

I wonder if "Bioingentech Chile" is a part of Avian Biotech? I know they have chapters in multiple countries, and their prices are good at the US chapter.

[belenny]

I don´t know, I read about them on a spanish forum about parrots and that was the name I saw :)

Do you normally test your lovies?

[Enko_chan]

I've used them for DNA gender testing.

[belenny]

I used Exon, from Brazil, for that. Do you know them?

[CompassionAk]

Over here you can go to the Exon station to buy gas for your car =p

[belenny]

Hahaha.

That´s what I mean:

http://www.exon.com.br/

14 € for three DNA gender testing ;)

[prison city]

Just a quick note. I see Little Wing Aviary is up and running again. The website is back, but no birds are available yet. The other day they were closed permanently. They don't say what type of birds they will be raising.

[linda040899]

I saw that their aviary was permanently closed several days ago and now it's like nothing ever happened, just no birds available. :confused: It's like a light went out and then someone turned the switch back on. Odd........

Any news on the test for Louie?

[prison city]

No results for Louie yet. Should know by Wednesday. Will keep everyone posted.

[StormyMom]

Gosh how incredibly sad.

Ive been so lucky with all the birds ive never Quarantined (before i knew any better) *knocking on wood*. This disease is a horrible horrible thing.

And as bad as i feel for her, she was very strong to have them all put down. Rather than to risk the spreading of the disease..she had a very large flock from what i am understanding.

The only bird ive ever bought from a large aviary type of breeder is my quaker Cloud. All my other birds were bought from small private breeders. But im sure that really doesnt make a difference. Good luck with Louie :(

[prison city]

Little Wing Aviary had too many birds. There is no way 1 person could handfeed the babies she had. Remember she had cockatiels too. Some breeders hire people to handfeed. Maybe this is what she did and that's how the disease was brought it. I do not think my Louie was handled and socialized the way she advertises. He refuses to step up, I have been working with him 6+ weeks and we are taking baby steps. He is terrified of hands. I have had handraised birds before and they never acted like this guy. I am wondering if after he was weaned he was not handled. He really does not enjoy interaction with people. It does not take long for lovies to revert back. I will keep working and pray he doesn't test positive for PBFD.If anyone has any training tips I would love to hear them. He is young so I hope there is still time.

[linda040899]

Your thoughts on how Louie was raised have merit. Yes, larger breeders do hire outsiders to help hand feed and it's very possible that's how the disease entered her aviary. With many, many babies to care for, there's no way to properly socialize all of them so priority goes to the most expensive ones. Smaller birds are considered "bread and butter," in that the sale of the smaller ones is what feeds all the birds. The thing I find so odd is that it seems to be business as usual at her aviary, just no available birds.....yet.

Try training Louie to step up onto a perch if he's afraid of hands. A perch is non-threatening and you may find a break through that way. Patience...

[Pips mom]

The friend of mine who got her lovebirds there had also gotten two female lovies from there some time before......both of those females are very tame and handleable.....in fact they rode around on me while I was there, very curious about me, and interested in interacting.....they were so sweet! I remember saying......why isn't Pip nice and behaved like this?? but ya know...Pip has really come a long way. Still hates hands, but will willing step onto them when he really needs the helping hand. Pip's been here with us now for two years, and he totally understands us, we totally understand him. He may not like hands, but he's so social and still loves interacting with us. What's nice is I feel like we can really communicate with each other....he gives us clear messages that are easy to understand and I know that he knows we understand them! He's a smart little stinker! I think in time with patience and consistency(they seem to love having the same daily routine) any lovebird is going to come around and count you in as their friend and part of the flock! Pip was parent raised, not hand fed, which I think in some ways may be better for them. I'm thinking parent fed is probably healthier for them too, because it's the way it's meant to be!

[lemonypickett]

Sad.... too bad they don't make a test for PFBD that is less expensive and dangerous (blood draw on a small bird) so we could all test for it. I had Eddie tested, and Dewie the Eclectus, but took my chances with birds bred by small hobby breeders after that.

I would have liked to have had them all tested, but it is so cost prohibitive. :(

[prison city]

Good News!!! Talked to the vet Louie is negative for PBFD. Did not recommend another test, but said she would check further and let me know. There is a plus to Louie's isolation-- yesterday he walked across the floor and climbed a mountain of pillows to join me on couch. I can't understand it but he goes nuts when he sees my dogs. He runs back and forth on the cage floor. He really loves it when my shepherd, Fritz, sits in front of his cage with a tennis ball in his mouth. Could he be bonded to dogs????

Whew!!! Am i relieved it's been a long week.

[linda040899]

Thank you for posting the update on Louie! I'm so very glad the test came back negative!!

Sounds like Louie is doing well in the trust relationship department! That's wonderful that he came to join you on the couch! It's much better if you let them come to you rather than you going after them.

As for the dog, be careful. Dogs are predators, birds are prey. There is Pasturella (a toxic bacteria) in dog saliva that could kill Louie or make him very sick if it gets into his system. I know we've all seen photos or videos of cats/dogs interacting with birds but understand it's a huge risk and that cat/dog is quite capable of killing the bird with no notice at all.

[prison city]

I'm very careful with my birds. When we have birdy rec no dogs are in the house, and the door is locked so no one is accidentally let in. I cringe when I remember many years ago when our cat used to play with the budgie. We even have movies. So cute, but also very dangerous.

[linda040899]

So cute, but also very dangerous.
You got that right!

http://www.lovebirdsplus.com/community/images/misc/progress.gif

[Chickobee]

This is amazing, and alarming! How could they possibly remove all traces of PBFD so quickly? How is it passed? Is it something that can only live for a short time without an avian host? I missed this thread before and now there is nothing on the site to indicate there was ever an issue.

I recently read about an infection (human) that has spores that can survive on dry surfaces for up to five months! That was prettly unsettling except that healthy people don't generally get it, but they can.

PrisonCity; I'm happy to hear your bird's test came back negative. What a relief that must have been for you! :happy:

I plan to do more reading about PBFD!

[Pips mom]

Yikes! shepards?? Yeah....shepards are not the best breed of dog to have around birds! My sister's shepard used to catch wild birds outside all the time! We had a black lab back when we first got Pip and he was very good around the birds. Of course he was old too...Pip used to love him and ride around on him often.....he also had this same relationship with the dogs at his previous home so it is very possible for them to like furry creatures too!
I'd be very cautious of this with shepards though....also terriers are supposed to be one breed that usually doesn't do well with birds. I find that alot of labs and lab mixes tend to be the sweetest (even though labs are supposed to be bird dogs!) and also age of dog makes a huge difference.....older dogs are calmer and not as playful and more likely to not care about birds flying around the house. Always be careful and keep a close eye on ANY interaction between dogs and birds! Even though our lab was good with them, we still always kept a close eye!

[carrier]

also terriers are supposed to be one breed that usually doesn't do well with birds.


and also age of dog makes a huge difference.....older dogs are calmer and not as playful and more likely to not care about birds flying around the house


You said it! When I first got Fenway, my dog was a very geriatric 15 year old Scottish Terrier, and although she at first was a bit interested in the new feathered creature, she quickly lost all interest and could care less about him. Even when I added Wrigley to the mix, she just paid no mind.

NOW, however, with Gracie, being only 1 1/2 years old and also a Scottie, when birds are out of cage, Gracie is in her crate. I had one VERY close call with Wrigley almost being in her mouth and once that terrifying experience happened ther rules have been in place. Birdies out, Doggie not.