Confused on what to do??!!

[BirdMommaAK]

We got a Creamino lovebird last weekend for my 6 year old daughter, we named her Penny. We got her at a local petstore, its young and was parent raised. So far, it seems to be a fairly sweet bird. Its terrified of us, but we can handle it without getting bit. In fact, she is perched on my shirt right now!

However, the past few days it has become obvious that this little bird it too much for my daughter. Its so small and constantly flies out of her hands and she is losing interest fast. The bird seems to only be content with me....well, flies off less with me!

The issue is that this bird wasn't for me, I have 4 conures that demand my attention! I have no issue caring for the bird and making sure it has everything it needs, but my daughter was supposed to be atleast able to handle it which isn't happening.

So, I'm tossing the idea around about rehoming her and finding a bird that is more easily handled. I think Penny will come around in time, but right now I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with my other birds and then trying to tame this one is a strain. My other fear is that Penny will become attached to me when tame and not let anyone else handle her.

So, what to do??!! Do I just keep doing what I'm doing in hopes it all works out?

[Flip]

I think if you have Penny's best interest in mind, you'll keep her and work with her. And no offence meant, but it's probably a lot to ask of a 6 year old to hold interest in such a demanding and time-consuming pet.

But if you keep working with Penny, and make sure your daughter has as much exposure as she can to her, then it might only be a year or two before your daughter is more likely to get attached.

Good luck, and let us know how things go.

[Elle]

Are penny's wings clipped? If not, I would consider doing it for the initial adaptation period.

[Pips mom]

Are penny's wings clipped? If not, I would consider doing it for the initial adaptation period.

VERY good idea! a little wing clip goes a long way towards taming a bird.....I think it's always a good idea to clip when you first get the bird for that reason, then if you want to, you can never clip again and let the feathers grow out, or.....you can see the difference when the feathers grow out and might need to clip again just to keep your sanity! :rotfl That's how it is with Pip! He is a little handful when clipped! so you can only imagine how bad things are when those flights start growing! Especially with lovies I think clipping is a good idea. None of my other birds are clipped.....they have been in the past, but are not clipped at this time.

[BirdMommaAK]

Yes, she is clipped.

I guess my main concern is that the bird won't stay with her, I try to give it to her and it flies off. The only way it will sit and allow her to pet it is if I wrap it up, which my daughter is more than fine with but I'm not sure if that is ok. With me, I have to handle it quite a bit but she settles down nicely and will snuggle against my chest. So, if I do the majority of the handling and training....and allow my daughter to hold it wrapped up, will the bird have issues bonding to both of us?? My fear is that I have heard that lovebirds tend to choose one person and ideally I want that to be her.

[Enko_chan]

I grew up in a family with many birds and while I wasn't able to do the taming when I was so young- my mother always did that- just by being around the birds I learned how to become more comfortable and understand the birds' body language. Birds KNOW when a person is nervous about handling them, and they respond to it. I've been working with my sister, who is 10, to that effect and in the past several months she's come a long way. I recommend sticking to it, and trying to keep your daughter as active in the bird's life as possible. Get her to talk to the bird when he's in the cage, and when he's out and about. Maybe set up a play area for the bird that your daughter can stand by. Its definitely too much to ask for your daughter to teach the bird boundaries, but if the bird can be trained to either stay on one of you or in designated areas- this took a surprisingly short period of time with my lovebirds just by picking them up- saying "No" gently, and putting them back where they are allowed to be. Keep at it. Even if you can keep your daughter interested 13-30 minutes a day in interacting with Penny, she will form a bond with her.

I have a lifelong interest in keeping parrots because of my mother's attention to helping me cultivate it, and while I probably didn't show the appreciation I should have when I was young, its something I am grateful for to the extreme now!

[BirdMommaAK]

Thanks Enkochan, thats exactly what I needed to hear. I really like this little bird, so far its been very easy to handle but I was just afraid of it not bonding with my daughter. The bird is actually in her room, so it hears my daughters voice constantly and she talks to it when she comes and goes. Atleast once a day we sit with Penny, usually when we are reading so that the bird hears our voices. My daughter is very interested in her, that isn't really the issue as much as the bird has zero interest in my daughter!

I feel like a jerk for even considering giving up, that isn't in my nature but the past week has been very life challenging so I think I was looking for a quick answer and thinking short term which isn't my nature either. So, I appreciate everyone's advice and candor! Once life slows down again, I'm certain I'll be happy we didn't give up!

[Enko_chan]

Definitely! It was the exact same situation when my mother got my sister Luke and Leia- a pair of pied green peachfaces... and she was so nervous that they would just fly right off her and back to my mother or I. After a few months, though, she's learning. She's a little bit older than your little daughter, but I bet anything your little one and Penny bird will grow closer!

[Chickobee]

:2cents: OK, I hate to rain on your parade, but I would never recommend a lovebird for a child under the age of twelve. When people call me about buying one of my lovebirds for a child I ask a whole lot of questions and usually recommend that they consider a different pet if the child is too young.

Lovebirds are very spunky birds and require a lot of work to keep them tame and sweet. They need daily training and consistency to remain good pets. This is every day, for years. I don't know any six-year-olds who are mature enough to handle this, so it is very likely that this will end up being your bird.

Young lovebirds will tolerate and even enjoy snuggling in a towel but as they mature they will not like this at all. They do not like being restrained and many of them also will not allow petting of any sort.

I have found that young children move too fast and do not usually understand how delicate a bird is. Also, if your birds bites your daughter she may become afraid of it and not want to hold it at all.

Another thing to consider, since the bird is in her room, is how her friends will treat the bird. It's a lot of responsibility to not only teach your daughter, but to also take the time to teach her friends how to act around the bird.

So, unless you truly want it for yourself, it might be better for the bird to rehome it. Then, if your daughter wants one when she is older and can take full responsibility herself, you may want to get another one.

[Pips mom]

Ok, wow....now you have two totally different points of view here! If I had never had a lovebird before and was in your spot, I think I'd be a bit confused!
Everything Chickobee said is pretty much correct.....lovebirds may be small birds, but they can pack a mean bite! enough to scare your daughter off and truth be told.....most lovies at some point WILL bite! (especially if she's a girl)
See, this is the thing about birds....you just never know how things will turn out. Taking advice is a good thing, especially here, BUT you always have to remember that how YOUR bird will be may end up being totally different! Each one has his or her own unique personality, so this is why you end up with so many different ideas on advice.....it comes from being with different birds. Both of these different posts you have here are right, yet both totally different. This is how it is with birds.....ANY bird! not just a lovie! Take two birds, same species and in two different birds, two different homes. One can scream and bite and not allow handling, while the other might be sweet as can be! Birds are like people.....each one is unique, so even if you tried getting a different kind of bird, you might still end up with this same problem. Lovebirds do tend to be independent and LOVE having freedom, so flying off alot can be just because the birds wants to go play and have fun. There are no guarantees that this lovie will bond with your daughter. There are no guarantees ANY bird will bond with her! Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. It's the chance you take.
If you really like this lovebird, and it sounds like you do, I would try to keep her. She may or may not come to be the way you'd like her to though. My Pip hates hands, BUT will show an interest in hanging out with people....on their heads, on shoulders. Pip can be quite the biter though and if you aren't able to understand his personality and his body language, then you're going to get BIT!
Sounds to me like this will end up being a decision where only you can decide what's right. If it was me though, I think I'd want to give it a try....your daughter might end up really loving this bird one day and like Encho Chan said.....when she grows up, she might be very grateful looking back that she had gotten this bird. She just needs to understand now at her young age that lovebirds are little stinkers! they can bite sometimes but that doesn't mean that they don't like her....it's just their way in the wild of protecting themselves. Good luck with your Penney! I sure hope she ends up being a part of your family!

[michael]

Thanks Enkochan, thats exactly what I needed to hear. I really like this little bird, so far its been very easy to handle but I was just afraid of it not bonding with my daughter. The bird is actually in her room, so it hears my daughters voice constantly and she talks to it when she comes and goes. Atleast once a day we sit with Penny, usually when we are reading so that the bird hears our voices. My daughter is very interested in her, that isn't really the issue as much as the bird has zero interest in my daughter!

I feel like a jerk for even considering giving up, that isn't in my nature but the past week has been very life challenging so I think I was looking for a quick answer and thinking short term which isn't my nature either. So, I appreciate everyone's advice and candor! Once life slows down again, I'm certain I'll be happy we didn't give up!

Well....tossing in my :2cents:. .... Despite weeks or even months of interaction, should Penny ultimately decide to choose you over your daughter (or your daughter innocently fails to acknowledge whats involved in her care), would you still commit the time towards providing Penny a permanent loving home? .... If not, I would immediately return Penny to the place in which you purchased her. .... Afterall, with only a week into her care, returning Penny should result in little, if any, emotional trauma.

I would not at all consider yourself a jerk, but rather, a conscientious fidparent who's predawned efforts to create a wonderful experience for her daughter may now require some "on second thought decisions". .... Really, this has nothing to do with "giving up". .... It does though, have a lot to do with deciding whats best for Penny.

Either way, best wishes for everyone involved.

[BirdMommaAK]

If I were to think about what is best for Penny, I would imagine she would be happier with a mate instead of a human. This is another option I have considered, but that also means twice the noise....and with 4 conures in the house, I don't need more noise!

You all have given me alot to think about. I certainly appreciate all the different points of view. I have decided to keep Penny and see how things work out. If down the road, things don't seem to be progressing positively I can rehome her then. But right now, I can't justify taking her back or rehoming her because of the unknown....just dosen't make sense!

[HaleBoppPeachyluv]

My mom kept single parakeets before we got our first lovebird... I remember one blue one being sweet, and being afraid of one yellow-green if it was on the floor (it liked to nip toes)....

I was 8 when my Dad brought home a normal peach-face. I named it Peachy & for one reason or the other (i don't even remember how or why) I became the one to change his seed & water regular, with my mom helping too. Peachy came to us clipped. He was not tame or friendly when Dad brought him home, but slowly did become that way over the first year. And while he went to everyone (he loved us all), he & I did acquire a special bond.

Your daughter at 6 may be a little too young to appreciate the responsibility.... my younger brother was about that age when we got Peachy.... and at that age I remember kiddies being more concerned with their own feelings than with others/pets feelings. I think a year or two would probably make a great difference and by then you probably would have tamed Penny enough for your daughter to take over all the care & most of the play & human interaction.

I think it's a learning process for both Penny & your daughter.

[Flip]

You've gotten some really great advice and an number of viewpoints, which is what I love so much about this board.

I was thinking about what Enko-chan said, and it's valuable advice. I grew up on a hobby farm, and our "pet" ducks and chickens (meat and eggs, respectively), were my first birds. While I didn't have to be wholly "responsible" for them when I was six, I certainly learned how to help feed them and give them fresh straw bedding in their coops. I was 10 or 11 when we rescued Scruffy and Spike (my first pair of lovies) from the pet store. And only a year later I was handraising my first clutch. To put it in perspective, Icharus, my 16 year old slate lovie is from that first clutch. My love for birds stemmed from my early years because we *always* had some kind of birds.

I recommend animals for every child, but I think that we as adults still have to be ultimately responsible for them, at least until our children our old enough to decide for themselves if they want a pet. I think that you're making the right decision in keeping Penny. But you should definitely be cognisant of the fact that you'll need to be her primary caregiver. But your daughter can help you change her food and water, clean her cage, and sit and play with her.

Bird behaviourists always recommend that we read aloud to new birds. If your daughter is starting to read, you could get her to practice her reading while sitting next to Penny's cage, thus serving a dual purpose.

I know that you'll make the decision that is in the best interest of everybody. And I know that Penny will fit in just fine.

Keep us posted!!

[BirdMommaAK]

I have zero issues or problems being the primary caregiver, that isn't a problem. I was just concerned that since I am, that it wouldn't bond with my daughter. It appears from what I've read from most of you that hopefully it won't be an issue. I understand that all birds are different and there aren't any guarantees, but this bird is too sweet to take back. She seems to be coming around a little more everyday, and its only been a week. I have high hopes for her!

I also should add that I have no idea what her true sex is, we are just calling it a she! I have read that Creamino's are generally female, but I'm not 100% sure that is accurate. Does anyone know??

[Enko_chan]

Just for the record- I never recommended a child being a primary caregiver. As I very clearly stated, I was unable to take responsibility as a child, nor do we expect this of my sister- but having bird to interact with throughout my life as a child has given me a lifelong interest in birds as well as a sentivity to their needs and personalities, an ability to communicate with them- though I really was not aware of this until I was much older. Different children have different aptitudes, ability and attention-spans for dealing with animals. Knowing your own child, assess the situation. Knowing birds, and knowing your child, and judging from the way things are carrying out.

What, may I ask, is wrong with having a mother and daughter take an active interest in their lovebirds together? I shared a relationship with my family's birds as a child, my mother shares a bond with her five lovebirds, the quaker parrot and my sister- and the pied peachface pair are- succcessfully I may add, bonded with my sister through the process that I described above. Yes, ANY bird may choose to bond with only one person. Any bird may bite, and there are many adults on here who are scared off by a biting bird, while I learned to deal with it early on in life. Its something to consider and discuss, but the OP is NOT inexperienced with birds. How many couples on here are dealing with a bird that bonded to the person who bought the bird for his or her significant other? Honestly, would you say "rehome the bird?" or try to work with the situation to save them stress.

To the OP- Yes, if the possibility that the bird may bond to you and only you would create an impossible situation, it may be better to rehome her now before she becomes too attached to her present surroundings, but from what I gathered from the dialogue beyond the original post, you seemed to be feeling more positive. I thought the issue at this point was helping your daughter become more comfortable with Penny, not your daughter being her primary caregiver!

There were many valuable and valid points put forth, and I agree with many of things that both Chickobee and Michael said, esp. the part about not wrapping a lovebird up or trying to constrain them, and if the bird ultimately bonds with you, will you be able to deal with the situation and give Penny the time she needs?

[Flip]

Well said, EnkoChan!!! I completely agree! :)

[Chickobee]

This has turned out to be a very good discussion which includes lots of great pros and cons to think about.

I've enjoyed reading these posts and there are many good points. I especially liked the suggestion about having your daughter read to the bird! Great idea!

It's really to difficult to keep those tiny birdie wings from wrapping themselves around your heart, and most especially yellow birds!

I want to commend you for bringing up the topic and being open to our diverse opinions.

As far as the sex of your baby, without knowing the colors of the parent birds you can't be sure your baby is female.

[Pips mom]

If your daughter is starting to read, you could get her to practice her reading while sitting next to Penny's cage, thus serving a dual purpose.

REALLY great idea!:clap

[BirdMommaAK]

Well, don't know if this was smart or not....but I went back to the petstore today and got the bird that Penny was paired with. So far, they are singing to the heavens and I can tell they missed each other! My daughter didn't know, I didn't want to get her hopes up in the scenario the bird was already gone....she is estatic! She decided to name the bird Piper!

My rationalization for it was so that ultimately these birds will have each other, so that neither one forms a bond to any of us to the point where they see us as a mate. That was important to me because I don't want to be the birds mate, and clearly my daughter isn't old enough to be a mate either! I figured if we are working on taming one, no reason we can't work with two. I know its a myth that lovebirds have to be in pairs, but the more I read I think its a better situation for us to have them paired up. I realize that in the big picture it may make them harder to tame....but I think as long as we work with them we should be able to find a happy medium!

[Pips mom]

Penny and Piper.....and how sweet they missed each other and are happy to see each other! Awww, that's great! I'm sure you will all do wonderfully together! The more the merrier, right?? Penny sure thinks so!

[BirdMommaAK]

They were chattering up a storm for awhile about 30 minutes but then quieted down and I checked on them and they were sitting side by side, looking out the window. They look very content, thats for sure. The interesting part is the new bird, Piper, seems to actually sing instead of just chirp. He is making sounds I've never heard Penny make....why is that??

[Flip]

Hurray!! That's so cute. I love the names! I'm sure Penny is glad to see her friend :)

Did you say she was paired with a Fischers? If so, I think they make different sounds than the peachies. Others will know better than I will.

I'm so happy for you all :)

[BirdMommaAK]

No, he is a peach faced....not sure what mutation but he isn't a creamino like Penny is. I looked it up and it appears he is a dutch blue, but I'm not an expert by any means!

[Flip]

Ok, now you must take pictures!!! :) We *LOVE* pictures here.

[michael]

They were chattering up a storm for awhile about 30 minutes but then quieted down and I checked on them and they were sitting side by side, looking out the window. They look very content, thats for sure. The interesting part is the new bird, Piper, seems to actually sing instead of just chirp. He is making sounds I've never heard Penny make....why is that??

Without actually hearing Piper's vocals, its really kind of difficult to say. ... Could it be he's one very happy camper?!

Knowing that Penny initially had a mate makes quite a difference. And i'm especially glad to hear you've managed to re-unite them! .... knowning Penny had a mate in the first place, I would have chastised you into re-uniting them in either one direction or the other. :rolleyes:

Paired or not, there's always a good chance of grabbing one or the others curiosity. Given plenty of time and courteous gestures, its part of a lovebirds nature to seek out what it views as a good advantage. And if one takes an interest, there's a good chance the other may too.

While keeping companion birds can be fun and very rewarding, being prepared for the challenges that lie ahead helps to fulfill one of our most important goals. That is, to avoid any future possibilty of having to rehome them.

Did you check in our lovebird resource library? There a nice little section on genetics via "Liz's lovebirds"..........:)

[Enko_chan]

That's great! I didn't know she had a mate. The stress of separation from a mate can be difficult.

I have a creamino hen that I nearly got by herself, but decided she may get lonely so her mate came along, too. They both really like both my husband and I- though they like him better- but we can both handle them. Freyja was very tame and sweet when she came, she'd been handfed from the first day of life, and Odinn was parent raised and had never really been handled. Now they're both happy to play with both of us all day long if we let them. That will take the burden off both you and your daughter in terms of being a mate, but don't give up on bonding with them! Paired lovies can make great buddies if they get even an hour or so of human play time a day.

Freyja is a creamino and Odinn is a WF Seagreen Cobalt (he's blue with a greenish tinge, with an apricot brow and white face, with a cobalt rump.)

[BirdMommaAK]

Yes, she was paired up with another bird when I got her. He had been there about 6 weeks longer than Penny had, and she was there about a month. They did appear to get along well, were grooming each other in the store but my thoughts at the time were that getting one would be easier to tame and be a better pet. However, after bringing Penny home and reality set in I couldn't help but go back and get the other one today. I can tell they are so happy together! My ONLY complaint is the noise! Good grief, they really can chatter it up!! But, its happy sounds so I really can't complain!

[Enko_chan]

One more thing about paired lovies- while they will socialize with human beings- they are like magnets- so be prepared to spend time with both of them!

[Pips mom]

My ONLY complaint is the noise! Good grief, they really can chatter it up!!

My new lil guy is quite noisey too. Not Pip though....I am starting to realize that Pip is a pretty quiet bird for a lovie! Most of the time I think his mind is on what he's doing or where he's going instead of making sounds! He concentrates all his efforts on having fun and getting into trouble!! :rotfl The new lovie chatters away all the time, and I was surprised at how loud he can get! I love it though.....lovie sounds and chirps are just the cutest!

[Enko_chan]

Mine are relatively quiet most of the time too- they've got a couple of times of the day when they get loud, including when they're out to play...

my mother's lovies are LOUD! It sounded like a jungle in her house with only 2 of them, now there are 5 lovebirds and 1 quaker parrot!

Now, I have a friend with a true aviary- she has a room the size of my apartment entire filled with her birds- all loved and cared for, the pets live in the house, the breeders in the aviary... and the noise in there is like a screechy sheer wall. She said I'm the only person without a similar amount of birds she's ever taken in there who didn't cover their ears the first time!

I enjoy the noises my birds make. I suppose that's another fringe benefit of growing up in a house filled with conures, lovebirds, tiels, budgies, and an umbrella cockatoo... and later on a quaker parrot, I find even the most obnoxious of parrot squalling reasonably easy on the ears (unless its literally RIGHT in my ear, or I'm having a migraine)... either that or the sun conures & umbrella 2 caused hearing loss!

[BirdMommaAK]

The noise clearly was them getting to know each other again but they are fine now. They have moments where they chatter, but not like it was yesterday when we brought Piper home. They are so cute together, I cannot tell you how good I feel about bringing Piper home. And honestly, they seem to be bolder now that they have each other. I can go to the cage and talk to them without them retreating, which I couldn't do before.

[Bubblelady]

What a happy story :) I look forward to the next installment!

[BirdMommaAK]

Well, this is quite a change from my last post.....but we ended up taking the birds back. My daughter asked to see them this morning, so we let them out and both were biting bad. She was in tears when I explained that since they had each other that they may not ever be friendly and like to snuggle. So, I gave her the choice and she said to take them back. We looked at other birds, but I came to the conclusion that a bird just isn't the pet she really wants. She confessed that she wants something to snuggle, so for now we are going to wait and see.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and guidence. In the end, we had to do what was best for us. They really were cute little birds, but just wasn't the right fit for our family.

[michael]

Thank you for sharing everything ... Especially for making this decision early on!

As i'm sure you know, unlike most other companion pets, parrots of any species require a more specialized type of responsibility. This is simply something most children, regardless of their desires, will eventually find some difficulty adhering to. ..... There's school, there's friends. .... Most children, if they so desire a pet, really need one that doesn't require the same amount of attention as they do. It would be a shame, if later on as opposed to learning the true value of life, it somehow ended up more of a lesson in pensiveness. Especially at the expence of one or two more parrots.

You know, our daughter had a mouse to start with. Actually two. One right after the other. .... While no less a divine little creature, their 3-5 year experience did leave quite an impact. I like to refer to them as cute little emissaries. If I may...........:)

[BirdMommaAK]

We haven't given up on a bird for her, just not right now. There is no reason she can't enjoy the conure's we already have.....she later confessed that the real motivator was a pet for her room. So, we did end up getting her a kitten that she can snuggle. We already had gotten a ragdoll kitten about a month ago, so I contacted the breeder and they had one more left. So, we went and got him. My daughter is very happy and the kittens are happy to be together again!

I think the issue with these birds were that they weren't tame to begin with. All of my conures were hand-fed. A few of them were in the petstore and not handled for many, many months but after only being here a few days were very social. Its a shame because I can tell that the 2 of them were very happy together and I'm almost certain they will be split up in the petstore. If I didn't already have other birds, I probably would have just kept them and let them be....but I do have other birds and unfortunately we had to make a tough choice.....but in the end, it was the right thing for us.

[Chickobee]

I haven't seen this thread for a couple of days and see that it has taken some unexpected twists and turns.

I know it was difficult to return the birds but it sounds as if this was the best choice for now. Possibly your daughter will want one when she is older, especially after growing up with birds in the house.

I'm sure she loves her kitten because they love to be petted and purr like crazy when they are happy. Kittens are way better snugglers than birds.

And, maybe someone will buy both of the birds if they notice how happy they are together.