Not really sure with clipping :S

[karsa624]

ben and jerry, masked lovebirds, are both fully flighted and never clipped, ben flies extrememly well and makes note of where he's going, whereas jerry is still a little all over the place and flaps her wings a little too awkwardly, i've been debating wing clip as when i let them out i can never catch them and usually have to chase them around the room because they fly, apparently clipping can help with taming also, they are both still untame aswell so i cant get my hand close to them, they usually sit at the top of the wardrobe so i cant reach them.
a family friend who used to breed lovebirds, says its bad unless they know how to land properly, My pet shop did say she would clip them for me
any advice on if i should or not? as im not sure if i should or not, i keep the room birdproofed when their out but its just such a pain getting them back in, ben will go back in by himself when he's hungry but jerry refuses too.
thanks :D

[linda040899]

Wing clipping will probably help with the taming of these 2 lovebirds, and the clipped feathers will grow back in with the next molt. However, an improper clip is far worse than leaving them fully flighted! Here is a link with an illustration near the bottom of the article that shows how a properly clipped wing should look. http://www.acstiels.com/Articles/BasicCare/wing.html Keep in mind that the article is written for Cockatiels and Lovebirds don't need that many flight feathers clipped. The illustration is good so that you can see what the clip looks like.

When clipping the flights of a lovebird, remember that some can be very strong fliers. I start with 4-5 flights on each wing and see how well they can fly. The object of this is to limit flight, not take it away completely. When properly clipped, the bird should be able to fly horizontally and glide to the landing surface rather than falling and landing with a "thud." The bird should not be able to gain altitude but still be able to fly short distances. Since they will not be able to return to the cage without assistance, that makes them dependent on you to go home.

Some of our members have found that not everyone clips flights feathers the same way. If you let someone from a pet shop do the clip for you, tell them exactly what you want done and watch to make sure they do it! You are paying them to do what you want, not do what they always do. Some people believe that clipping just one wing is the way to do it. Wrong! Clipping just one wing will affect the bird's balance even when they are not flying. It's a very bad cut for a parrot and should never be done. Another bad cut is called a "show cut." The 2 outside most feathers are left long and the clipped feathers are after that. Those long feathers tend to get damaged so I don't use this kind of clip, either.

Since Ben is the better flier, the wing clip will have the biggest impact on him. Jerry most likely never learned to fly well and you may only want to clip maybe 3 of her flights.

This is a very personal decision so give it some thought before you do it. I agree that birds were given wings so that they can fly but that's in their normal outdoor habitat. We've turned them into pets so safety now enters into the equation. Some birds do very well completely flighted, while others need to be clipped and kept that way. It's a matter of knowing your own birds and what's best for them.

[karsa624]

thats really informative thanks :) , ben does like his flying as when he used to be on his own he would swoop around my room.
the only thing im worried about with ben is i open the top of the cage when i let them out and he would fly straight to the wardrobe, im worried if i got his wings clipped and he flew, he would go straight into the wardrobe door, jerry usually follows him.
If i did get clipped would it be best to open the bottom door instead so they landed on the ground?, i also do have a large double bed which they can glide onto, which would also create a soft landing.
I'll have a good think about it, i know jerry would probably benefit from it as her free flight isnt very good and she tends to look like she's panicing when she's flying.
I'm slightly worried that ben might become depressed with no free flight, but i suppose he would get used to it.
I have a funny feeling jerry has been slightly clipped before or is just going through a molt, as the two times i've let her out, when we chased her back in the cage the ends of her feathers on her right wing would bleed slightly (i have blood marks on my wall), could these be blood feathers?

[linda040899]

If you choose to clip flight feathers, I would let them out through the bottom door rather than the top. A proper wing clip isn't going to stop Ben from flying, just where he can go. Your wardrobe will most likely become off limits, as he won't be able to fly up but you can trust that he will find other interesting places to check out!!! :)

Sounds like Jerry has new flight feathers coming in on her right wing. If she hits those feathers against anything, it can crack the keritan sheath that protects those new feathers as they come in and that's where the blood is coming from. She may actually have several blood feathers on that wing but the only way to tell is to catch her and check the underside of the wing by spreading it out. If this is the case, it's important that you clean the tray in their cage every day. Should you find blood drops on the bottom, at least you will know they landed there since you cleaned the bottom of the cage the last time. I do this with all my cages, simply so I know anything out of the ordinary has happened within the last 24 hrs. Each time I clean the bottom of a cage, you can be sure I look to see what's there!

If you don't have an emergency first aid kit put together for these 2, you need to start one and keep it handy. First thing to put in there is either cornstarch or flour, which can be used to stop bleeding. Pinch a little bit between your fingers and hold it around the area that's bleeding for a minute or so and then check to see if the bleeding has stopped. If not, apply pressure to the area for another 2-3 minutes and check again. Your bird may not be happy with what you are doing but unhappy is better than dead. Birds don't have a lot of blood and, with lovebirds, it only takes a bit more than .4 ml loss to be fatal.

If you opt to clip flight feathers, blood feathers cannot be clipped!!!!!

[karsa624]

I've never seen any blood drops in the bottom of the cage, and the last time i let her out there was hardly any blood compared to the first time i let her out, which was a day after i got her from the pet shop so she was only a few months old, how long does it take for blood feather to become normal feathers?
I was thinking about catching her and having a look at her wing, as she struggles now and again (but rarely) while in her cage when she flys a little to lay her wing down properly, sorta like when we have a cramp in a our leg and we can't straighten it, is this normal?

[linda040899]

Depending on the species of bird, blood feathers can take 1-2 weeks to mature. With lovebirds, it's usually closer to a week. If you haven't seen any blood lately, I would just watch carefully, as the feathers causing the problem have probably matured and the blood supply is gone.

She may have a feather with a cracked shaft that doesn't lie back in place properly so she has to adjust it. If you can figure out which feather it is and clip it where it's cracked, it might make her more comfortable. This is not something that's mandatory. Eventually, the feather will either molt out or she may chew the shaft at the point where it's cracked, if that's the problem.

[Pips mom]

I've never seen any blood drops in the bottom of the cage, and the last time i let her out there was hardly any blood compared to the first time i let her out, which was a day after i got her from the pet shop so she was only a few months old, how long does it take for blood feather to become normal feathers?
I was thinking about catching her and having a look at her wing, as she struggles now and again (but rarely) while in her cage when she flys a little to lay her wing down properly, sorta like when we have a cramp in a our leg and we can't straighten it, is this normal?

I've noticed Pip do this from time to time too....he'll keep lifting up a wing like something's wrong with it(just for a short time though)......the first time I saw this, I watched him closely and nothing ever became of it and I've seen him do it again a couple of times, not just with the same wing, so from what I see with him, I guess this is just something normal that happens from time to time......although I've never seen Rudy do it, but Pip is all over the place, and kind of rough and tough on his feathers! Maybe a feather gets out of place or something and becomes uncomfortable.
As far as clipping goes.....as long as the person clipping your lovies does NOT clip too many flights, then a clip is probably the way to go....especially if you are having to chase them around to get back into cage. Having to chase them around will not help at all in trying to tame them! I doubt that they would ever become depressed about a wing clip.....maybe unhappy for the first day at most, but they are strong little birds and from what I can see with mine, they try to stay focused on fun things and enjoying themselves!! so a wing clip is just something they will adjust to, and probably quickly get over and forget about! I'd at least get a few flights clipped.....it's amazing at how well these little guys can still fly, even with a clip, they'll still be able to fly, just not get up to the top of high things! For the first day, I would usually put some blankets or pillows around in the areas where Pip flew to and landed the most, but now I clip him myself so I don't clip very many and he still has quite a bit of flight when clipped. Even clipped right now, Pip can make it up to the tops of the windows on the curtain rods! I only clip him to slow him down a bit, and when I start having problems getting him back into his cage when I go to work, then I know....it's time!!!

[karsa624]

well jerry stretched her right wing and i think one of her primary feathers on the outside is a blood feather as it looks a little uneven compared to some a couple along, and its thinner at the top where it joins the rest of the wing.
I think i've decided to get them clipped, it will be safer, as i dont want to have to keep chasing them around the room as that could get really dangerous one day, also for Jerry's benefit.
when i take them to the pet shop, i will tell the lady that i think jerry has some blood feathers so we can have a look before hand, incase there is i'll wait to get her clipped, besides if i let them out when ben is clipped, jerry usually follows ben anyway, i'll also take the pictures from the article (thankyou for that linda was really good :) ) so shes knows where best to cut.
Looks like i will be chasing them around the floor haha.
whats the best way when they're running around on the floor to become friendly with them, just sitting down and letting them come to you? also with a treat too

thanks guys :D really good advice thats convinced me :) i'll defo come here with all my other lovie problems :) and keep you updated on taming :)

[michael]

.......Looks like i will be chasing them around the floor haha.
whats the best way when they're running around on the floor to become friendly with them, just sitting down and letting them come to you? also with a treat too......

Besides making sure not to accidentally clip a blood feather, I would be sure to opt for whats refered to as a "mild clip". .. One where your birds flight is only limited, and not totally eliminated. .... "Floor bound" parrots on the other hand, are a NO NO. ...If at all possible, do your very best to keep your bird/s off the floor. ..With just a single stumble, you'd be surprized at how serious or deadly an injury can be. .... If necessary, I even would go as far as cautiously using a squirt bottle/small squirt gun in order to help keep them off the floor. ......Please keep us posted on those wing clip results!............:)

[karsa624]

i wouldn't like it totally eliminated anyway as ben likes flying anyway :) i would prefer it if they can fly onto the bed and such, as its quite big.
Is the mid clip the one shown in the article which linda linked me?
i sure will keep you posted :)

I would rather take them to the vets to get it done, but don't know what the average price would be :S also the Vets is a 45 min bus ride away as i dont have a car, any idea what the average price would be? or should i just ring them up and ask?

[Pips mom]

I don't know what the price would be over there at the vet, but vets around here charge about 10-15 dollars for a wing clip. I used to take my tiels to the vet for clips because my one has always been a big bleeder and broken so many blood feathers, so I just felt more comfortable she be clipped by the vet. Now I clip her myself.....she's a lutino so it's very easy to see if there's a blood feather or any feathers that might bleed show up SO much on her light yellow feathers!

[michael]

.......Is the mild clip the one shown in the article which linda linked me?..... .....I would rather take them to the vets to get it done, but don't know what the average price would be :S ...........

Yes, the mild clip so to speak, is the type of clip Linda refered to. ... Starting out perhaps by first clipping 4 flight feathers, then graduate until your bird can no longer gain altitude. ..... Be careful with having a vet do the clipping. .. Despite thier medical knowledge, many simply do not know much about clipping a lovebirds wings. ... Besides this, some species may require a different style clip. ..One that may not be adherent to a lovebird. ... None the less, if you do decide on your vet performing a clip, make sure he/she understands the extent of which your hoping to accomplish. ..That is, to only limit your birds ability to gain altitude. ... I would certainly call your vet ahead of time, to not only confirm a price thats reasonable (as Pips mom quoted 10-15$), but most importantly, that he/she is able to perform the necessary clip while under your supervision. ... Just as important, is that you and your vet find a safe place for practice flights right after the clip. ...Preferably a room with not alot of obstacles :omg:...........:)

[karsa624]

Bah my Dad wont let me get them clipped, because his friend who was a breeder said they need to learn to land, so frustrating :/
So now im going to have to leave them in the cage while i tame them for the next god knows how long, i dont like letting them out because i cant get them back in, specially jerry.

[linda040899]

Argument to that is that Ben is quite adept at flying and landing, at least it sounds that way to me!!!!!!!!!!!! Jerry needs practice but Ben is a completely different story.

Oh well, even fully flighted, you can still have the trust relationship with them that you want. Try using a perch when you want to move them around during the training/taming period. Perches are usually viewed as non-threatening so it should work. Fully flighted doesn't change their innate curiosity. It just gives them a bit more independence. If they like/trust you, they will still want to be with you.

[karsa624]

so best thing to keep doing is what im doing now?, I put my hand in there palm up with usually millet on my palm, and just leave it resting on a perch quite high up the cage, as it's quite a tall cage, perhaps i could try small pieces of apple, as they absolutely adore apple, specially jerry. I usually leave my hand in there for round 20 mins while whistling and talking to (hand goes numb in the process haha)

When i sit by their cage they tend to just fall asleep ^^ (they're tired little lovies) even though i was falling asleep in the chair yesterday and ben was intently watching me :)

sorry about all the questions, you guys have been great and taught me alot already :)

I've never seen Ben land on the floor before, but landing on the wardrobe/curtain pole/top of his cage he seems fine and takes off really quickly again, jerry lands okayish a little thuddish though.

[linda040899]

Most definitely keep up what you are doing! You've gotten their attention and they don't seem to be terrified of your hand, as it's not gone after them in their cage. Your hand brings good things and that's what they see. Try apple or anything else they seem to really like!

Napping while your hand is still in their cage is really a good thing! They've accepted its presence and seem quite comfortable.... Trust has no short cuts but the rewards are incredible! Think about yourself and how long it takes for you to trust another human being well enough to consider that person your friend. I have a lot of acquaintances but only a few true and trusted friends.

sorry about all the questions, you guys have been great and taught me alot already :)
Don't be afraid to ask questions. Our success as a community depends on the success of our individual members! :)

[karsa624]

They've never acted aggresively towards my hand either, usually they will go the ceiling of the cage, while my hand is on the top perch and look upside down at my hand, its quite comedic :rotfl so they are curious but too chicken ^^, Ben tends to start screaming at me while my hand is in there aswell to deafen me :rofl:

[karsa624]

little bit of progress today :D they both went to bottom of cage (which i get best results with as they have to go past my hand to get to top), and ben stood on same perch, did a couple of steps forward, had a look at my hand then changed his mind >< , and started playing with a toy near my hand :), can never get them to come down if they go to top, ben clings on the bars for his life if they go to top, Jerrys still not very enthusiastic, she just concentrates on getting to the top.


Just on a side note. when they go to the bottom of the cage when im not there, jerry will stand on ben's back and tries to nibble him and welll squash him, i know she's not mounting him, ben really doesnt like it as he does little panic sounds and struggles to get out from under her, sometimes she ends up putting a foot on his neck, im worried she will catch him with her claws, at this moment she's managed to pull one of his feathers out, as i turned round and she was chewing one of his feathers, can anybody explain what this is? As i really dont like it and quite worried