Trying to teach step up

[Carole]

I've had my two lovebirds a little over a week now. They are about 4.5 months old. They were hand fed, but I'm not sure how often they were played with at the birdie store.

I started to try to teach them to step up yesterday. But they are scared of the perch. They run in the other direction. I did get Adagio to step up once, but that was it. Dolce jumps over the perch when I put it near.

Question - should I take one in the other room and just work with one at a time? I thought if I tried to teach both at once they would learn from each other. The other thing is that Adagio has started threatening to bite me when my hand goes near. I don't know what brought this on.

The other thing I have to figure out is a way to keep them on the table when I am trying to train. Once they fly down to the floor, they are like kids in a toy store, exploring everything in sight, and boy are they hard to catch!! They are wearing me out :)

Any advice would be appreciated. When I agreed to adopt them, I thought it was best not to separate them. Now I'm beginning to see what the books say about them not wanting humans when they have each other.

Carole

[Carole]

Oh, these are my two little darlings :) Dolce is the one in front and Adagio is in the back. I can only tell them apart as Dolce has a two tiny peach spots on her head. I call Dolce a "her" and Adagio "him", but I have no idea what sex they are :)

http://carolemay.com/lovebirds1.jpg

http://carolemay.com/lovebirds2.jpg

Carole

[Pips mom]

Lovebirds are like little kids at times.....they are pretty hyper, very active, and with a short attention span! Not only that, when they spot something they want, not too much can get in their way. You've only had them a week....I'd let them get used to some more, and try not to push them too much. You need to find something that they like, food, a toy, millet, to try to lure them. Are they clipped? because if not, then I'm afraid it will be close to impossible to keep them in one spot for any length of time! You said that they go on the floor.....take advantage of this as Pip only steps up onto hands when he lands on the floor....see if they'll do it from the floor, and if not, then try again another day and try not to spend too much time training them at one time, like ten or fifteen minutes a couple of times a day.

[Carole]

Well, they do LOVE millet, that's for sure :) They said at the bird store that they only got birdy bread and fruity zupreem. I've had them out of their cage a few times, and gave them millet and some cockatiel seed. They really LOVED both. Everyone on here has been telling me to switch to seed, so I think I will do that. They seem to like the seed MUCH better.

I will try what you said. The only problem is that I am 59 and getting down on the floor for me isn't easy :) And chasing them around when they fly down to the floor is insane! They do have their wings clipped.

Carole

[linda040899]

If they are on the floor and you want to pick them up, offer a long wooden perch or dowel. That's actually a lot less threatening than offering your finger or hand.

Many of us use a seed based diet, but make sure there's lots of fresh food and maybe 10-15% pellets. That way, if one or both will eat the pellets, they are available. :)

[Chickobee]

Sorry - this got pretty long...

If your birds love millet I would suggest saving it for training sessions only. If they have already had all they want in their cage they won't risk stepping onto a perch or your hand to get some.

A hungry bird is a good bird when it comes to training! (And no; I am not advocating that you deprive your birds of food!!) I am suggesting that you save their favorite food as a treat for training.

Also, talk, talk, talk so your birds get used to your voice. Eye blinking is good too. Predators will stare at them with an unblinking stare, but blinking is non-threatening. Also, spending time near your birds doing something else is good, like reading. Then they can watch you but you are non-threatening.

If you hold a spray of millet in your hand and offer a perch for them to step onto they may come forward onto the perch to get the millet. Then eventually you should be able to take them out of their cage on the perch, still feeding the millet. (This usually takes days or even a couple of weeks.)

I use a ladder for this purpose. And, after they have learned to step up onto the ladder I can use it to pick them up when they are on the floor.

I say "step up" even if they only put one foot on the perch or my hand, and every time they step up.

I find it works well to take my birds individually into the bathroom when I am working to teach them to step up on my hands. The smaller space makes it easier to retrieve them when they fly away.

First I just get them used to being on my hand or arm and give them small bits of millet. Then I work with them by alternately putting a hand in front of them and saying "step up" as they move to that hand. It works well to put gentle pressure onto their lower abdomen above their feet with the hand you want them to step onto. Praise them profusely when they step up.

They will not learn this overnight, so be very patient. You will want your bird to set the pace. And, as already said, training sessions should be short--about ten minutes--but frequent.

It is important to work with your birds for a while every day while they are young--in the first year of life. Later they will retain things for a longer period of time but it is very important to build a strong bond with them now. All of the techniques I have suggested will also work with untame adult birds but it usually takes them longer, but not always.

Young birds can revert to wild behavior in two weeks if they are not socialized daily so if your birds were not socialized while in the pet store they are wild again.

People handfeed baby birds so they can advertise them and sell them as handfed, but it is socializing that makes them tame, not the food. When they go to pet stores where they are not socialized daily they will turn wild again even though they were handfed.

Parent raised babies will also be very tame and sweet pets if they are socialized, and they will make better parents if they ever have babies themselves. I let my parent birds raise their babies but I love playing with them so they are well socialized when they go to their new homes! Then they get the best of both worlds--and I get my sleep! :)

[Carole]

Thanks, Linda and Linda. I will start using the millet just for a training treat. They do love it! I also just got a couple of ladders so I'll save one for when they are on the floor.

They didn't come from a pet store. Linda, I don't know if you are familiar with the bird store that was in Lynden. It was called Jeepers Cheepers and it was run by a very wonderful woman, who unfortunately, passed away on April 20th. The store had to be closed as there was no one to run it, so all the birds had to find homes. I adopted the lovebirds.

I have tried giving them fresh veggies, but they are not interested. I've tried green beans and romaine lettuce, both of which my cockatiel loves. But although they are curious, they just kind of look at it and walk away. I put it in their food dish, but they just took it out. Are they just not ready for 'real food'?

I will do as you said and continue to work with them every day. They do see me doing regular activities as their cage is in my spare room which is also my office. So they see me at the computer every day :)

Carole

[linda040899]

I have tried giving them fresh veggies, but they are not interested. I've tried green beans and romaine lettuce, both of which my cockatiel loves. But although they are curious, they just kind of look at it and walk away. I put it in their food dish, but they just took it out. Are they just not ready for 'real food'?
They are ready for real food but they just don't recognize it as edible. Keep offering. You may have to put some on a dish and sit down next to their cage and let them watch you eat what you want them to eat! Lovebirds are social eaters and you may find that they will eat when they see you eating. :)

[Chickobee]

The way something looks definitely makes a difference also. For instance, chunks of carrot are evil but shredded carrots are yummy. :)

I started off with frozen mixed veggies and even chopped the peas and carrots in half to start with. I also sprinkled some millet on top to entice them. Broccoli is a hit with lots of birds too. With peas and corn my birds eat the insides out and leave the rest.

Most birds immediately like the birdie bread (Recipe is a sticky at the top of that section). I crumble it up so they don't drop big chunks through the grate. You can hide veggies in it too and they will eat them.

If they see other birds eating it they will generally try it too. It may take a couple weeks of offering a new food before they will even taste it.

Did you mean Lynden, WA? You must be pretty close to me, relatively speaking. Way closer than the other Linda who is in Florida. :) If so, I hadn't heard of Jeepers Cheepers but I don't get up that way much. Lynden is a pretty town.

[Carole]

Yes, Lynden, WA. I'm in Bellingham :-) I don't know why my town doesn't show, guess I have to change something in my account info :)

I do make birdie bread. I have my own recipe as the ones I saw contained milk and I was told that cockatiels are lactose intolerant. This is how I make it:

Combine a box of corn muffin mix with a jar of mixed vegetables baby food and jar of water along with two eggs (shells included), and other vegetables cut up small.

Mix everything well and bake it in a baking pan for 20-25 minutes at 425F.

Dundee will eat it sometimes, but the lovebirds go nuts for it.

Today, I had them on the little table in my office and I was talking to them. I had my arms on the table and Adagio came over and was curious. Unfortunately, he got a little too curious and decided to bite my arm to see what it was. I was hoping he'd jump up on it, but he didn't :( Oh well, we'll try again after lunch.

BTW, there is a whole page on Dundee's website about Jeepers Cheepers. I miss that place already. Are there any good birdie stores down by Stanwood, Linda?

Carole

[Carole]

I meant to put this in the previous message :)

Dundee's Website (http://dundeebird.com)

Carole

[Chickobee]

Hi Carole;

I loved Dundee's web site. You definitely have a gift for that and you take wonderful photos. I'm sorry I missed out on seeing Jeepers Cheepers. It sounds like it was a wonderful place for birds.

It sounds like Dolce has started to molt. It's funny when they get their freckled brow coloring and their bodies become mottled when the new adult feathers are intersperced with the baby feathers. You may not be able to tell your birds apart when they have both molted if they are both aqua (Dutch blue). Or, at the very least, it will be difficult.

I'm not aware of any good bird stores in this area but there are a couple in Seattle. I do nearly all of my shopping for the birds online.

I found way better deals for our cages and other accessories online, even with shipping charges, than I was able to find in any stores.

I buy toy parts online and make the toys for our birds. It's way cheaper and I can recycle a lot of the beads, chains, bells, and the acrylic toy bases. I also know that all of the parts are bird safe.

Dave makes our playgyms from madrona branches (hard like manzanita).

We have reached the point where our only real expense for the birds is their food. It was expensive getting to that point though...

[Carole]

Thanks, Linda. We had a potluck dinner in honor of the owner of Jeepers Cheepers. It was funny how many people came up to me and said, "You're Dundee's mommy!" They had seen the website and the piece that I put up about Karleen and they loved the photos and other pages.

I also make my own toys for the same reasons you do. I get most of my birdie toy parts on eBay. Where do you get yours?

I'm not doing well with the lovebirds. They have no interest in learning to step up at all. It's been a very frustrating week. I tried holding a sprig of millet for them. Dolce was fine and came over and at it, but Adagio came over and bit me. I think I'm going to get out the gardening gloves I got when I first adopted Dundee and he was into biting. I don't know what to do to get Adagio to stop. I haven't done anything to intimidate him, I don't think. I have tried to get him to step up on the perch, but he just steps up and jumps off so fast. It's more like he jumps over it. He won't stay on it and just sit.

Where does Dave get madrona branches? Do they grow near you? I don't even know what a madrona tree looks like, LOL :) i would like to make a playgym for the lovebirds. Dundee has one that I got a couple of years ago at Karleen's.

Carole

[Dave_K.]

Hi Carole,

I'll answer the Madrona wood question for Linda. It is native to our area and most common along the edges of the Puget Sound. The hard part is finding some that you have permission to take. It is a not so common tree. You can tell it mosty by the very smooth wood as it sheds its outer layer every year and the oval leaves. Also the wood has a reddish brown color.

I got very lucky one day and was doing a job for a gentelman who was forced to radicaly reduce the size of one of his trees for a constrution project. I'll have Linda Photograph the playgym and post it for you as a sample.

As for training most of them come around in time. Some are easy, some are hard and two of ours are so far impossible. They remain terrified even with every day socializing and attempts at step ups.

Good Luck,

Dave

[Carole]

Thanks, Dave. I live in Bellingham so it is possible that we have some of those trees around here. My apartment complex has LOADS of trees and we just got a notice from PSE that they are coming to trim the trees, so if we have any madronas, I could get some nice freshly cut branches for free. I'm sure maintenance wouldn't mind me taking them.

I'm very frustrated with the lovebirds today. I tried again this morning to train, or get them to eat millet while I was holding it, and I got bit by both of them. I know they are molting and was wondering if that is why they are being so nasty. They are also being very noisy which is stressing me as I live in an apartment, and I'm just hoping that the people downstairs can't hear them. If they can, I know they will complain and I'll have to find them another home.

Carole

[Dave_K.]

Carole,

Here is Lindas Photo of the playgym.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj106/Chickobee/Aviary%20Pix/Playgym1a.jpg

If you find a source of someones prunings you will have quite the little treasure. This gym was made two years ago by simply boring holes into the big pieces and then pilot drilling thru and using stainless steel wood screws back into the smaller pieces. some of them were only applied with big zip ties. the other secret of course is having all of the tools to do the job.

Dave

[Chickobee]

Hi Carole;

It sounds like you may be expecting too much too soon from your lovies. Slowly earning their trust and being patient will pay off in the long run.

Parrots don't usually bite unless you have ignored their body language signals to stay away. They will bite when they are afraid or cornered or when they are trying to get away from you. Then, if you jerk your hand away when they bite you (or start to bite) they will very quickly learn that this is a good method of keeping you at a distance.

Whatever you do, try not to reinforce the biting behaviors! If you must, grit you teeth and calmly walk away. Do your very best to not react to the bite.

It is way better to avoid bites in the first place by respecting your bird and paying attention to it's signals. Almost all the time there is body language which will let you know a bite may be coming. When that happens it is better to distract your bird with a toy, millet, or something else to refocus it's attention.

All young birds go through a bitey stage which is sometimes referred to as terrible two's or adolescense. It only lasts a couple of months and then goes away. Many new bird owners are very upset when their formerly snuggly baby enters this stage of development. It sounds as if your birds are now right in the middle of it.

Your goal at this time is to work through this stage without teaching and/or reinforcing bad behaviors. If your birds get what they want by biting they will get very good at using it as a method to control you.

There are lots of threads on this subject. If you have time, I would suggest reading through some of them to learn tips from other people who have already gone through this. If you are patient through this developmental stage it will go away with no permanent negative effects and you will have sweet birds again.

[Carole]

Thanks, Dave. That playgym is gorgeous! I do have a drill set and hammers and screwdrivers, so I'll have to see what I can come up with.

Carole

[Carole]

Thanks, Linda. The lovebirds are just about 5 months old. I think their biting is more of a curiosity thing. I just don't like being on the end of it. When I take them out and let them run around, they start out on a little table that I have set up as a playground with toys. I sit near the table and they've decided that they like to fly onto my lap and then climb around me. When they get to my arms, they start nipping at them. I do try not to react, but sometimes it's painful. I'm thinking about getting a suit of armor! LOL! I do hope this ends soon. I'll take your advice and read what others have gone through. Hopefully there will be something that will help :)

Carole

[linda040899]

Carole,
Since birds don't have hands/fingers, their way to finding out about things is with their beaks. If they pinch too hard while exploring, they may not realize that it's painful for you. When they do this, try taking their upper mandible between your thumb and index finger and gently rubbing. Most birds LOVE beak rubs and it will distract them from what they were doing. Tell them "easy" or "no bite" and you may find the message gets across to them. Beak rubs are pleasant and not at all threatening.

[Carole]

Thanks, Linda. I know from having Dundee that they feel with their beaks. I just wish the lovies beaks weren't so sharp, LOL :)

Carole

[Bubblan]

Hi Carole! I´m hoping that you are making progress with your Lovebirds.
I just wanted to tip you on a site that I found when I bought my lovebirds for about 2 years ago. The adress is www.birdtricks.com and they have all kinds of tips for us birdowners on how we can train our birds. Hope it can help you too :)

Bubblan

[Carole]

They have discovered the mirror in the room I have them in :) They are in my spare bedroom which is also my home office, so I'm in here a lot during the day. The closet has mirrored doors and they've been standing in front of it admiring themselves for quite some time :)

I went to the birdie place to get food for them and Dundee yesterday, and the woman there gave me a number of tips on the biting issue. Thus far they are working :)

Carole

[linda040899]

Glad that you are making progress with the biting issues! It's amazing how painful a bite can be from a bird that is fairly small!

I would not let them play in front of the mirror on a regular basis. Occasionally is not bad but they don't distinguish between a reflection and a real bird. You don't want them to form a bond with a reflection. That's why toys with mirrors are not good for lovebirds.

[Carole]

I actually found a nice bamboo mat and I put that on the floor and they like to play on it. I have no idea why. Maybe they like the sound of their feet on it :) They've also taken a liking to an empty cardboard box. They like to go in and out, LOL :) It keep them quiet, which is something I have to attempt to do in an apartment building.

Carole

[Carole]

PS
I am still having biting issues. This morning Adagio bit me when I put my arm into the cage to get their food dishes. I need a suit of armor!

Carole

[michael]

PS....... This morning Adagio bit me when I put my arm into the cage to get their food dishes.......

Our Beeber's won't let anybody even get near his food bowls!.....:omg:.....And he's tame!.......:rofl:

[bird-brain]

Carole, I have these same issues with Cabo sometimes still, after 6 months:omg: He is not afraid. Let the little devil miss his intended landing spot and hit the floor and he is MORE than happy to step up on my fingers. Other wise they are terrible annoyances that deserve biting! He is very content and happy to take food from my hands now and climb me like a play gym. He would stay on me all day if he could. He just doesn't like hands. It takes longer with lovies than it does with tiels. If they are exploring you then you are farther along that yo think. Patience is the ultimate virtue when dealing with lovies.

Hope the neighbors don't complain. Cabo sings non-stop and everyong who hears him says it cheers them up!

[Carole]

Our Beeber's won't let anybody even get near his food bowls!.....:omg:.....And he's tame!.......:rofl:

How do you feed them? My two push their bowls so that they are all the way in the back of the cage. I have to reach in to get them. Maybe I should use kitchen tongs? :) Their water thing is hard too as I got them one of those kind that have a cover on them. They were pooping in their water like crazy so this stops that :)

Carole

[Carole]

Carole, I have these same issues with Cabo sometimes still, after 6 months:omg: He is not afraid. Let the little devil miss his intended landing spot and hit the floor and he is MORE than happy to step up on my fingers. Other wise they are terrible annoyances that deserve biting! He is very content and happy to take food from my hands now and climb me like a play gym. He would stay on me all day if he could. He just doesn't like hands. It takes longer with lovies than it does with tiels. If they are exploring you then you are farther along that yo think. Patience is the ultimate virtue when dealing with lovies.

Hope the neighbors don't complain. Cabo sings non-stop and everyong who hears him says it cheers them up!

Well, maintenance was in here this morning and they didn't say anything, so I guess I'm OK :)

They are starting to explore me. Dolce flew over to me the other day and walked up and down my body, then flew on to the floor to play. I have ordered them a nice playgym which I'll go pick up next month. Then I'll set it up on a little table and they can have a nice playground :)

Carole

[Chickobee]

Progress with lovebirds can be slow and they go through changes as they mature. You are doing really well with your two. They will continue to get better as they grow up if you continue working with them frequently.

Ignoring them is never the answer because they can revert back to wild behavior, especially when they have another bird to socialize with. Regardless of what you do they will always prefer their feathered friend to any human.

With our pairs they like to be together and they will call their mate if they are separated for very long--or in some cases immediately. When we take them out we get both of them out together. They aren't as tame as a single bird would be but we feel they are happier this way, especially since we are gone so many hours each weekday.

[Carole]

They are funny, I will say that :) I have mirrored closet doors in my spare room. I don't like them as I don't like looking at myself when I'm at my desk, so I have a curtain up to cover them. The lovebirds were enjoying themselves at the mirror and a couple of people told me not to let them get used to that. So I pulled the curtain back over the mirrors and they figured out a way to nuzzle under it to get to the mirror, LOL!! I guess I'll have to build a brick wall :)

I'll be getting their new playgym soon, so that will keep them occupied. I have one for my cockatiel and he loves it. It has a swing and three ladders and little rings to attach toys to. I alternate the toys so he doesn't get bored and will do the same with the lovebird's toys.

Carole

[Chickobee]

We had all of our birds trained to go to the playgyms when we let them out to play. It was so cute watching them all fly or run over there.

Then Zoe arrived. She's the female who was DNA'd male two years ago and she was returned to us about a month or two ago because she is female. Zoe is very tame and obviously had the run of the house where she was before. She is very adventurous and isn't satisfied with just the living room and the playgyms. She thinks the entire house is her personal playgym. The little stinker!@

She will march off as fast as her little lovie legs can go or fly to forbidden areas. Now she will have an entire entourouge following her either to the sliding glass door in the kitchen where they will torment the cats who are outside, or she will lead the entire parade up the stairs to the second floor landing.

This may be cute, but we now have birdie bombs all over the house instead of just in one area. I try to keep her in her cage during flock out playtimes so she doesn't keep teaching the other birds bad things but then Dave feels sorry for her and lets her come out too. Then the circus begins again. I have to be so very careful to not step on anybirdie so this has to end before we have a fatality!

It's a good thing for Zoe that she's so darned cute!

[Carole]

I let Adagio and Dolce out and they play on the floor. Once I get the playgym, I am going to construct a little fence around a table I have and put the playgym on there. Or I may just put it on the floor. Right now they are having a wonderful time playing in a cardboard box. They go in and out. I put a few toys in there and they climb on those :) I also have to be careful not to step on one of them.

Dundee is content on the top of his cage and doesn't want to be bothered. Right now he's molting so he naps a lot during the day.

Yea, it's a good thing they are so cute :)

Carole

[michael]

I let Adagio and Dolce out and they play on the floor. Once I get the playgym, I am going to construct a little fence around a table I have and put the playgym on there. Or I may just put it on the floor.........

Hi Carole. ... Glad to hear your lovebirds are being so active! ....That equates to good health both physically and mentally. ... With all that energy, certainly an added playgym is a plus! ..Hopefully, your birds will adhere to it in no time. ... Please though...Do your best to keep your lovies off the floor. ...Their travels can be so unpredictable, in a split second, stepping on one can mean the difference between serious injury or death.

Regarding their food/water bowls. ...Are their bowls on the floor of the cage? ...If so, should their cage have horizontal bars, purchasing a couple plastic hanging style bowls might be better. ... If you must reach in to maintain their bowls (and you need to keep from getting bit..:omg:), grab a pair of leather gloves, and use them just for that purpose ONLY. ... Thanks for keeping us posted!.......:)

[Carole]

Yes, I have been using gloves to get their dishes in and out. Their dishes are in holders on the side of the cage. They are actually the dishes that came with Dundee's cage, but he was used to the ones he had, so I had these in a box. When I adopted the lovebirds, they gave me a cage, so I attached the holders to it. Once the lovies get bigger, I'm going to get them a cage like Dundee's. He lives in a condo :)

I do keep a good eye on them when they are on the floor. I have a large bamboo mat that they seem to enjoy playing on. For some reason, they seem to stick to that. But once I get their new playgym, I'm going to make a playground out of a table I have. It will be like their own personal Six Flags :)

Carole