Conflicting Messages - Taming Kiki

[Decolor]

Just a few days ago, I picked up Kiki, my first lovebird. She's a two year old rescue and a failed breeder, who has a severe dislike of other birds in her cage, but is only shy of people. Because she was a "bad breeder", she became neglected. I got her from the couple who rescued her, who said when they got her, it took two hours to clean her cage, and her water dish was more sludge than water.

This is she, by the way...

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m337/DecolorDomina/IMG00439.jpg

(Interlude of Cute.)

She's actually very sweet despite where she's come from, and has never made a move to bite anyone, and seems to have no mental problems aside from a bit of shyness.

I've been pouring through forums, and have been researching how to tame her. The folks I got her from, a very nice couple of lovie breeders with very sweet birds, recommended that I take her out of the cage and just hold her for a few hours every day, petting and talking to her, keeping her cupped in your hand so that she can't fly. This, however, seems to really conflict most of what I'm reading, and how I've tamed birds before (My budgie would have eaten my fingers had I had the "nerve" to hold him still.)

What I had done with the budgie (Named Minion, or just Min), was the early stages of 1. Sit quietly. 2. Bribe with food, 3. patiently teach to step up, with lots of time out of the cage.

Does, er, cupping really work on lovebirds? Their birds were extremely sweet, and friendly, but I have my doubts about their method, especially since it goes against a lot of what I'm reading here (aside from one link that endorsed it).

Take care, and thank you for reading.

[linda040899]

Does, er, cupping really work on lovebirds? Their birds were extremely sweet, and friendly, but I have my doubts about their method, especially since it goes against a lot of what I'm reading here (aside from one link that endorsed it).
No! Forcing a bird to do something is always counterproductive to a trust relationship (unless it's a matter of safety or life and death) that you want with your bird. This may be in contradiction to what you've been told but those of use here who have let our birds come to us instead of us going to them can/will tell you the rewards of love, kindess and patience are like nothing you will ever experience. Even parent raised babies can be tamed without taking them away from their parents. Socializing is what makes them tame, not them being dependent on us for food.

Go with your instincts. You're definitely on the right track! :)

[bookworm0550]

i agree w/ linda. it seems like you already know about taming birds and it's no different w/ lovebirds. kiwi is a beautiful bird by the way. i feel like when i cupped my birds, they just learned to hate hands even more and to this day will still bite my fingers off. and that even my tame ones hate being cupped. i don't know if it's that "squeezing" feeling they get or what.

[Pips mom]

I am guilty of holding Pip this way.....I actually have to put my hands right around him to get him because he hates being held! BUT....knowing Pip as I do and having had him for almost three years now.....we're good buddies and he's pretty understanding when I just can't help myself but to hold the cute little birdie! He seems to understand that sometimes mom just gets a little carried away and will sit there for me, even enjoying the attention, but the hands touching him is just something he doesn't like. He has no fear of them though, just plain doesn't like them! So what I do is I just make sure when I want to hold him or have to pick him up this way, that I make it quick and if he starts squirming too much, I let him go quickly......he seems to totally forgive me for doing this.....even seems like he understands my need to hold him sometimes, so he just deals with it....knowing it isn't really so terrible because I let him go very quickly every time and he doesn't seem to mind a few seconds of hands! So see.....even if your bird never likes hands....he will still build up enough trust with you and love you enough to forgive you for touching or holding him!

[Decolor]

Then let the bribing begin :)

Actually, she's already nibbling the end of a millet spray when offered to her, which has me extremely impressed, even if she makes a ruckus when I do so. I really need to learn to speak lovebird now, since I've picked up on speaking budgerigar. I have no idea if those were happy or territorial chirps.

[Decolor]

Hmm, I can tell she wants to make things complicated.

I tried opening her cage. I know she's very shy, and didn't expect her to do much, I just sat next to it and talked to her. She approached the door, chirped, hopped onto the floor, ran past me, climbed my chinchilla's cage and has been sitting there enjoying the AC breeze.

This was not quite the response I expected, she's bolder than I thought.

[linda040899]

This was not quite the response I expected, she's bolder than I thought.
Lovebirds are not known for their shyness, that's for sure!!!! :rofl:If there's a way to get into trouble, leave it to a lovebird!!! Their curiosity will get the better of them every time. Just be careful that she doesn't go where she shouldn't. Chances are that she had scoped out your Chin's cage for a while and went to check it out at the first available instant! Hens are always looking for potential nesting material and places that would be suitable for nesting..........

http://www.lovebirdsplus.com/community/images/misc/progress.gif

[Decolor]

If there's a way to get into trouble, leave it to a lovebird!!!

Oh gosh, a chinchilla with wings :evil:

So, should I just let her investigate as she pleases, so long as she stays out of mischief? My living room is mostly bird-proof, seeing as I had to budgie-proof and chinchilla-proof everything.

On a similar note, I can't just bird-proof and use the bathroom like many suggest, we live in an ancient house with a clawfoot tub that probably hasn't been cleaned under in 20 years. Last time my chinchilla got under there, he turned 4 shades paler and found cat toys... we've never owned a cat. So the bathroom is out of the question.

[linda040899]

I would supervise where she goes very carefully. Yes, you might aptly say a Chinchilla with wings and that makes the entire house accessible to her!!!

Since she's female, you can believe that she will chew on anything she can get her beak on. I don't know that the paint used is lead free but unless you stripped and repainted, it's possible that painted surfaces could be dangerous to her, as birds will get sick from zinc toxicity. It's quite possible that you've already taken care of this. I'm just mentioning it to be on the safe side! :)

[Enko_chan]

Yes, definitely do not restrain her! It may take time to gain her trust, but letting things progress at their own pace is the only way to ensure that your relationship is based on trust! Once you know each other well, holding her from time to time to pet her, if its within the boundaries of your friendship, is one thing- or, as Linda said, if its an emergency, but its something that should be done rarely if ever, and not as a bonding technique!

It sounds like you're off to a good beginning. Shyness is probably not so much a personality trait, as a situational reaction that she will adjust to once she begins to bond with you. That new boldness- that's her becoming more comfortable and feeling more like herself. The fact that she is not a biter will make things much easier for you, especially considering her background.

She sure is a cutie pie! Wow. Keep us updated and definitely feel free to keep asking questions.

[Pips mom]

It's funny how different each bird can be! They all have such unique little personalities! Pip is as mischievous as they come and will chew up any wood that he can find....windowsills are one of his favorites! He's also has gotten ahold of wires a couple of times, and he looks for pens and pencils laying around. Remotes are also a favorite.....and he used to chew the rubbery part on the computer mouse. Pip will fly into the living and just look all around for good things he can get into! He also likes plants....even if they are fake! If you're eating....he'll come right over and try to steal food from your plate! One time I was eating a dish of cereal and he came over and grabbed the end of the bowl in his beak and pulled it and made me spill it!
Then there's Rudy......I let Rudy out in the living room and he is perfectly content just to sit up on top of the curtain rods and chirp away! He also likes to go on the ceiling fan.....someplace Pip has never gone. Rudy is not mischievous at all the way Pip is!
Looks like you've got one there with a little bit of Pip in her!

[Decolor]

Awesome news.

Kiki is taking millet by hand readily, even as close as 3 inches away, as long as I'm not in her cage. If I'm giving it to her through the door, she's fine. If I'm in the cage, she becomes the screaming damsel in distress who seems terrified that I will grab and hurt her.

Does anyone have any tips on approaching a lovie with cage-issues?

She's also mellowing considerably with one side of her cage covered. I had made the mistake of having her cage in the middle of everything but I can see it left her a bit overwhelmed with no where to "hide", she's much sweeter with 2/3 the cage open rather than all of it. She can still see and hear me work in my studio, and see my husband game, but isn't in a panic every time one of us goes around her cage and she pelts to the other corner. I may also raise it up a bit, so that she feels on "bird" or "people" level and not on the floor.

[LauraO]

First, congrats to you for giving Kiki a loving and understanding forever home. She is a beautiful girl that's for sure. She also sounds as if she a fun personality. I have no doubt you will build a trusting relationship with her. You seem pretty informed about the process in working with lovies. That's one reason I wouldn't worry about taking Kiki into the bathroom. It's just a great tool that works for some folks.

I think grabbing lovies is dependent on the lovie and situation. Generally speaking most lovies, no matter how tame and human friendly, really don't like to be grabbed. The less human friendly birds in my flock I only grab if I have to. They are terrified if I grab them, and I've noticed over the years that really wild lovies will calm down if you don't touch them. I think it's the fear of being grabbed that upsets them. If you take that fear away they calm down over time. I have quite of few birds I can scratch and kiss their belly. I use the phrase "birdy love" when I want to interact in this way, and more often not they will cooperative more than when I just try and get them to step up. I think it's cause they know what to expect. Then, I have birds who are tame, hate being grabbed, but once in a while I just tip them upside down in my hand and kiss their bellies. These birds, usually the trouble makers, have the personality to deal with this interaction and aren't affected by it. So I don't feel bad.


btw, I think Kiki would respond well to stick training. Having her step up on a dowel or perch would allow you to move her around without hands involved.

Please keep us up to date on Kiki's new adventures :):).

[Decolor]

Thanks for the input Laura, I plan to pick up a dowel later today, and your comments about handling were interesting, especially the fear of being grabbed, as I think that's what lead kiki's rescuers as well as myself to fear that she was extremely territorial, which flows into my next update...

Kiki is no longer raising a hissy-fit when I put my hand in her cage and offer millet. She does squeak a bit when the cage is first opened, which I tend to just ignore until she stops, it only takes a minute or two. She's eating millet at a 3-4 inch distance and doing surprisingly well with "wiggly fingers" in her cage. Usually when I first offer millet by hand, I keep my hand as still and rigid as possible, then once the bird starts to eat, slowly show them that hands can indeed move. She's actually doing better progress-wise than my budgie, but I'm waiting to see and slowly exploring where her problem areas are. Much like with taming my budgie, I expect to hit the "wall" or "hurdle" somewhere that's the hard one to cross.

[linda040899]

Sounds like you're making great progress with Kiki! You don't know about her prior history, but you can trust she remembers!! She needs to learn by experience that you are not going to be the same thing over again, just different location. Birds have remarkable memories and that's what you're fighting at this point.

Kudos to you for your efforts. You're doing a wonderful job with her! :)

[Decolor]

The bad: Dowel rods are apparently the most terrifying things ever. Fierce and evil, surely they must want to eat lovebirds.

The good: Arms are nice :D

Kiki hopped up onto my arm and shoulder today, when bribed with millet. This is a wonderful event, seeing as she's spent the last two days chirping her head off for hours on end. We think she is trying to chatter back at my budgie boy. I thought I was going to lose my mind... so hubs and I bought headphones, and kiki's squeakys are barely audible. Ahhhh, technology.

She's currently on mt. chinchilla cage, surveying the scenery, and being quiet at last.

[Decolor]

More updates!

1 week after taking in kiki, she sat on my hand for the first time today, heavily bribed with millety goodness. No biting, just some timid "circling" (She walks in circles when she's thinking) then climbed up and chowed down.

She's also decided dowel rods are not so evil, and is going "up" nicely, and pretty intuitively goes down.

[alwaysodile]

Fantastic progress! :) What a lucky little bird to have found someone like you.

[linda040899]

Watching trust unfold is an amazing thing!!! All live creatures will respond to love, kindness and patience (bribery is an acceptable form of all three...) and there are no short cuts. I'm going to be ROFL when you ask how to get a velcro lovebird to go back to her cage!!!

[Decolor]

Another little update:

Kiki is becoming very handle able, though she does require some bribing to hop up. She doesn't do the usual "step up" with my hand like I do with the dowel, she gets on my hand on her own terms, and always after a bit of careful decision (I love watching her "trying to decide" dance, she goes back and forth and in circles while looking super interested, then hops up)

I'm not sure how to approach "petting" her or touching any part but her feet, if I should at all. It would be easier for her to hop on my hand with the 'step up' press, but I don't know if I want to push her. She does fine with the dowel for such, so far. I tend to use it for fetching her when she decides to go explore, as it's less like I'm a big looming thing hovering over her, since she's clipped, she tends to explore the floor.

[linda040899]

I would give Kiki a bit more time before you try petting her. As you can see, human hands can be very scary things for some birds and you are making great progress with her! You might wait until she's in a "cuddly" mood, sitting quietly against your neck and then stroke her head with just one finger. Keep in mind that if Kiki is a female, stroking down her back could be viewed as sexually stimulating.