Parrot Training

[JoeSchmoe]

Hi All,
Just wondering if anyone has tried or heard anything good or bad about the parrot training system offered at birdtricks.com?
I've gotten a few free video clips from there and his ideas seem sound and there's no roughness with the birds but I wanted to know if anyone has followed the program and had an opinion about it.
Kiwi has been with us for about a month and while she'll take treats from us and steps up onto a stick, she's still not fond of hands and runs away if we get too close.
So any opinions would be appreciated. The cost of the program isn't too much at about $50 but still, if it hasn't worked for someone who's tried it I'd rather not check it out.
Thanks
Jo

[linda040899]

Save your money and buy Kiwi extra treats and toys!!!!!

What you are looking for with Kiwi is a trust relationship and for that to happen, Kiwi has to learn for herself that she's safe with you. That takes time and there are no short cuts. She will form a bond with you because she wants to, not because of any kind of training.

Birds are not like cats/dogs and you really need to understand what makes them react as they do. Birds are extremely intelligent, as well, as they communicate with you constantly, even it's so subtle that you don't recognize it yet.

One of my very favorite sites belongs to Steve Martin, owner of the site Natural Encounters (http://www.naturalencounters.com). He's a bird trainer and offers a lot of very good insight as to what makes birds "tick," for lack of different terminology. Take a look at his site and read some of his articles regarding bird behavior.

[Enko_chan]

I second Linda's advice...

This is a subject that comes up on a fairly regular basis- the Womack Bros. training regimen... and for good reason. We recognize that we have an intelligent companion and we require guidance, and this particular advertisement is extremely pervasive and is often the first one that pops up- it was the first one I found when I got my first bird after a hiatus, too.

However, I would stay very far away from techniques like those on birdtricks.com, the free or the paid for ones. I have all of their information and have studied it thoroughly- but not to use with my birds. Watching their videos- the ones you pay for- were horrifying to me. These techniques will not lead to a trust-based relationship between you and your parrot, and some of them are detrimental to physical and mental health of the parrot being trained. Your parrots may learn the tricks, but I doubt you'll share the kind of relationship you would share if you grew to know your parrot's needs and learned to communicate by understanding their body language. These things take time and there really is not easy answer. Techniques that overwhelm the bird and force them to act the way you want them to...it seems that a bird will ultimately suffer from this sort of thing...

Though I do not use it with my own parrots, a technique used among many parrot folk is clicker training. It is a technique where you can i.e. help train a parrot toward positive bonding behaviors by offering a treat and using an extremely inexpensive clicker.

This is one of the more popular beginner books:

http://www.amazon.com/Clicker-Training-Birds-Getting-Started/dp/1890948152/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277516149&sr=8-1

you can also find this as a package, but its cheaper and fresher in terms of the treat, to buy the treat and clicker separate and the book second hand.

Clicker training can work along with any one of many philosophies and help to establish a common means of communication between yourself and your parrot- that seems to be the idea of it anyway.

Personally, I think the best way is to learn as much as possible about your individual bird by spending time with them, and let them learn over time that you're their person- no training gimicks necessary.

[JoeSchmoe]

Thanks for the replys :)
Maybe we're talking about different training systems here, in the first video I saw he was talking about training with a clicker like you've suggested. Not sure if this link will work if you don't sign up for the emails but here's the one with the introduction to clicker training.
http://www.birdtricks.com/blog/first-step/
The training is not for tricks, it's about getting your bird to be comfortable with you, or stop biting etc. I suppose it's possible he's calm and patient in the videos you see before you buy the system and forceful and mean afterward, I've only seen 2 videos personally. Or is it something psychologically harmful to the bird that he does?
He seems to strongly advocate not forcing the bird to do anything it doesn't want, instead allow the bird to decide on their own to come to you.
When she's out of her cage Kiwi leans towards us chirping and really seems to want to join in whatever we're doing but I understand I'm still new to her and we don't push her at all. I really don't have a desire to teach her tricks, just be at ease with us and enjoy our company.
Please don't misunderstand my intent here, I'm not in a rush to do anything, I just want to make sure I'm doing things in a way that won't have a negative effect on Kiwi. I'm new to birds and could perhaps make mistakes and set her progress back inadvertently.
Thanks again for your suggestions, I'll check them out.
Jo

[Enko_chan]

No no! Please don't misunderstand! There is absolutely nothing wrong with exploring and asking questions, and ultimately with making up your own mind about what is best for your birds.

From what I understand, Chet Womack took a lot of heat for the "Psychological Flooding" (his term) method that he uses in his paid video system from other parrot training laymen and scientists- and has been leaning more toward the clicker method. I do not know if the paid-for system has actually changed from the one that I have right now, which I and a friend split about a year ago after we saw the free vid (which at the time had no clicker training). However, the newer methods he is leaning toward, according to a another person, not me, as I have never seen him live- are a mix between his own older methods and classical clicker training.

It isn't that the methods involve being mean or yelling at the birds- its a method that overloads the birds with stimuli, or involving denying them food until the end of the day so that they will act to take treats... things like that.


EDIT: but still, your money's better spent on toys and treats and maybe a second-hand lovebird husbandry book- though most information you want on lovebirds you can find here in the forum, or on websites, and the steve martin site is wonderful.

[JoeSchmoe]

Ahhh ok I see what you're saying. He seems to have changed his ways somewhat thankfully but I'd rather not support someone who had to be forced into treating the birds more humanely.
Thanks again for the info
Jo

[michael]

Jo. ... The Steve Martin website speaks for itself. ..By first learning why parrots behave the way they do, that alone provides parrots and humans much more common ground for positive reinforcement. ... As far as i'm concerned, any pay for play website/literature, is based on knowledge already available through non-profit organizations. ...One of the main problems with paying for this type of information, is that its geared towards those (usually the inexperienced/mis-informed) who want either instant results, or for their parrot to respond as they see appropriate. ..While most will claim it takes some time and/or repetition, there always appears a fair amount of emphasis on instant "owner" gratification somewhere's in the background. ... And of course, most all of us want our birds to learn something. .Right? ...Eventually?

One of the most important key elements in learning to tame/train your bird is through socialization. ... Sure, birds can easily learn various tricks or commands by repetitions, predictions, or consistencies, but what they may end up lacking is emotional stabilty outside the confines of simple training procedures. ..Although much of this type social strategy applies towards larger species, smaller species such as lovebirds:), budgies, etc, are no exception. ... That goes to say, most birds really do want to learn what makes us humans "tick". ..And one of the best ways to show them, is by talking to them in a meaningful positive way. ...Clickers might be quicker (and at times do provide a reasonable stepping stone), but ultimately, socializing with your bird really is better. ... Not only does it provide your bird a more expanded means of communication, but opens the door to them excepting more than what they've been "trained" to do. ...........:)