Leg Bands on Lovebirds

[Booda's Butt]

Hi everyone, I was just curious how many of your lovebirds had closed leg bands? and for the breeders on the board - do you always put closed bands on your babies?

I understand the pro's and con's of closed leg bands - My Quaker never had one, my Senegal I insisted it not be put on (so i keep it on one of my keychains) and Cali has one from her breeder.

The reason I'm asking is because Cali will not leave hers alone. She is constantly - almost obsessively - trying to bite it off. I'm afraid I'm going to find that she gnawed her foot off one day! :omg:

I've checked her leg though, there are no red spots, injuries, or anything that seems to be odd. Just a thin leg and an irritating leg band.

I am looking into getting the band removed (not to worry, i don't plan on leaving the country with any of the birds anytime in the near future). i was curious if lovebirds in general seem to not like the bands, or if it was just my neurotic little Cali.

[Janie]

Karin, my older, adopted bird never had one but the two boys I got at the end of July did have the closed bands. My breeder is "Rubygem" who is a member of this forum. :) Since I know her and know their hatch dates, etc. I opted to have the bands removed by my avian vet. I was stunned that she charged me $20 EACH bird to remove the bands but it was something that I couldn't/wouldn't do myself. Anyway, I was afraid they would pick at the bands or at each others band (they are brothers, caged together) as you are seeing with Cali. I know that several members here do have birds with closed bands that do not have problems with them.

[Mummieeva]

Baggy has a closed band. She does not touch it really unless leg itches. I wanted to band Whisper but never got bands in time. If I have anymore birds I would like them to have a band just incase they get lost or such.


Steph

[Paulette]

I am glad Karin asked this question and I will be curious as to all the replies. Hope has one and she bites at hers quite a bit. The other breeder pair have them also, but don't seem to mind.

Janie, 20.00....wow....but at least you have peace of mind. In light of Sara's recent demise I wouldn't attempt doing it myself.

It was scary enough trimming their wings....the little biting breeder machines!

[linda040899]

Some lovebirds play with legbands just because they are there. I've been known to play with jewelry when I'm thinking about something or when I'm bored. Removing a band is not something you want to attempt to do yourself. My vet does any that I need done.

[Rubygem]

In GA we have to have a breeder’s license, and have to keep records of all of our birds. I band my birds to make record keeping a little easier. It is only a matter of time before it will be the law. In some states the breeders are required to close band their babies before selling them to a pet shop. As I do not sell to pet shops, and I have seen un-banned babies there, I would say it wasn’t law her yet.

Rubygem

[Booda's Butt]

RubyGem - I have heard that some states require birds to be banded, but as far as I know, Illinois is not one of them.

Linda - that's exactly why i asked this question, I wanted to know if lovebirds just seem to have a tendency to play with leg bands, or if they just really seem to hate it, etc. I wanted to try to understand why Cali did it so much, whether out of boredom, nervousness, or if she just plain hates it. I don't want to remove it if I don't have to.

All the avian vets I've called require a physical exam first, ranging from $45 and up. One of them require a full exam, including CBC, fecal and cloacal swabs, and full blood work, before they'll remove the band. Then there's the actual cost of removing the band, which are about $10. The avian vet I usually go to wants a general exam, but will anesthetize the bird before removing the band. I dont know how comfortable I am with the idea, so I'm going to hold off on it for a while. I haven't had any experience anesthetizing any of my birds, but have heard that it can be risky.

[Rubygem]

With you posting the fact that your vet requires a vet exam first Does this mean that you haven't had your pet bird to the vet?

Rubygem

[bellarains]

Karin,

I have one of each, banded and un-banded. Lacey does look as though she is chewing around her band, but she is actually just cleaning around it. My lovies tend to preen their feet alot it seems, and as long as there is not irritation I'm sure she is fine.

Just to share a funny, my first lovie Bela was not banded, but Lacey was. When I first brought her home my hubby wanted to know why she had a "bracelet" and Bela did not. He thought it must be a girl thing. Only girls get bracelets :rofl:

[Mummieeva]

Angel my first lovie was a pet store bird and had a band. Baggy's mate Kiowa was not banded. For me myself I want Baggy to keep her band because I cna know it and maybe if she got lost I will now it.If she eer lets me look long enough..lol.


Steph

[Christine9]

Neither of my lovies have bands, and they were both from breeders in Massachusetts. I also have two tiels, one from New Hampshire (no band) and one from Massachusetts (w/ a close band). He never pays any attention to it, fortunately.

[Booda's Butt]

Ruby Gem - She has not yet been to the vet, but I plan to very soon. I have not had time to make an appt. with my vet yet. (they're the ones that want the anesthesia). I had mentioned it because I had called other avian certified vets around the area for pricing, and they said a first exam must be done, if the bird had not been seen by them. So it did not matter if Cali had been to a my vet yet or not, bringing her anywhere else to remove the leg band meant another physical. Also, my vet would charge an extra office visit fee if I did not have her band removed at the same time as the physical.

If i decide to have the band removed, I'm highly considering going to a new vet, just to avoid the anesthesia. But then this means I'd have two birds on record with one clinic, and one bird at another. But I haven't even decided if I really want to remove the band yet or not, so I guess I can worry about it when I make the decision.

[Janie]

I had no idea that a vet would want to give a bird an anesthesia to remove a band! :omg: I would also give a lot of thought to removing a band if that were required. My vet did it, in about 3 seconds, on each bird. She clipped the band and her tech. held the leg.

I took my new babies to the vet 2 days after I got them and did have a full work up done on both because I have an existing bird and wanted to be sure they were in good health (they are! :D) and their bands were removed during that initial visit. That visit, for two birds, was $470. I knew it would be expensive because I had to have all test done on them for Oliver's protection. My vet would have required at least a general exam (on any new bird) before removing the bands.

Oliver is now due for his yearly exam which will run around $100 and that sounds good after the price of Big Boi and Shy's exam! :D

[Jezz]

A lot of the birds i have bought from breeders have leg rings, i haven't put them on any birds i have bred yet but i have ordered around 50 or so.
In Australia, not too many breeders get their birds DNA sexed as it has a low accuracy rate, around 40-50%, even though they claim to have 99.9% accuracy :rolleyes:
A lot of breeders here get their birds Surgically Sexed and you need to have a leg ring on your bird to be able to prove that it has been surgically sexed.

[Booda's Butt]

This is sort of off topic - but why does DNA sexing have low accuracy rates? It seems here in the States that it's the more common way, or at least I've just heard more about it than other sexing procedures.

My lovebird Cali was surgically sexed by her previous owner, I still don't have the paperwork for it from him yet, but that's what he says. I'm actually not too familiar with the surgical sexing, how exactly is it done?

[Mummieeva]

I belive we have a lovie here who was surgicaly sexed a male... and suprised mama a few years later with eggs..lol.



Steph

[kimsbirds]

Hi Karin
DNA sexing is always 100% accurate in FEMALES, and 99% accurate in MALES. Yep,you CAN get false readings on males, but it happens very rarely. There are a couple on the board who have DNA'ed males who lay eggies LOL
As long as you provide a clean fresh complete feather sample (including the bulb of tissue below the skin) or several droplets of blood, your results should be without discrepancy.
Hope this helps :)

[linda040899]

DNA sexing is actually very accurate when the samples are taken correctly. A contaminated sample will equal an incorrect test. When I got my sexing kits from Avian Biotech, the first thing they tell you is clean the nail well that you are going to short cut. If the nail is dirty, the test can be wrong. Don't know if feather sexing is any better, and why that's so if it is, but I know that DNA can also be taken from the egg shells left after babies have hatched. I believe those are very accurate.

Surgical sexing is a bit more risky, as it involved making cuts in the bird's lower abdomen and looking for the sexual organs. With the exception of one vet in my area, all the others use anesthesia. As with any surgical procedure, risks are greater when a bird is anesthesized rather than just having a nail short cut. The vet doing the surgical sexing actually examines the organs and their condition.

[linda040899]

I belive we have a lovie here who was surgicaly sexed a male...
When birds are surgically sexed, they are supposed to be tattooed under the wing in the wing web. Males are tattooed under the right wing; females are tattooed under the left one. Dao's right wing web shows blue and Ginger's left one has the mark.

[Booda's Butt]

thanks Linda and everyone else, that was very helpful. I have the kits from Avian Biotech, but have never used them yet. I am waiting for the one time I go to clip their nails and accidently cut too short.

I have only heard about the feather sexing - is it hard to pluck the feather out? I'd imagine it would be painful, but is it more painful than say pulling a strand of hair out? Or is it more/less painful than clipping the nail short?

I did not know about the tattooing, I will have to look under Cali's wings to see if they are there. Is it clear to see? So if she was supposedly surgically sexed female, it's probably safe to assume she is in fact a female?

Also - the surgical sexing doesn't sound very pleasant, what would be reasons for deciding this method of sexing over the DNA? I'd assume it would be more expensive to surgically sex as well?

[linda040899]

Actually, surgical sexing is usually the same price or even a bit cheaper than DNA sexing. At our local shows, surgical sexing is $20.00/bird. The vet examines the sexual organs and can see if there are any problems associated with them. If you a breeder and you are purchasing an expensive pair of, say, macaws, you want to know that those birds are male/female and that they are capable of reproducing. DNA sexing can't tell you if the pair are capable of breeding, just that they are male/female.

If Cali was surgically sexed, you should find the skin looks blue under her left wing web. It's usually very clear, although Dao's has faded a bit with age. If you don't see the tattoo, could be you were not told the truth.

[Booda's Butt]

Hmm, this is very interesting. I'm curious on how all this is done, do you know of a website that gives further information, details and maybe even pictures? I'm curious where the incisions are made to view the sex organs, and how this could be done without anesthesia. I assumed it would be more expensive than DNA sexing because of the anesthesia that I assumed would be involved.

All this talk of DNA - I just ordered new kits from Avian Biotech, lol. I guess now this really stirred up my curiousity, and I do want to know the sex of my other birds! Well...Booda had always been my baby boy, and Mia our grumpy girl...we shall soon see how accurate our guesses were...

[Jezz]

Here in Australia Surgical Sexing is about $5 dearer than DNA sexing. I guess in Australia, our DNA sexing isn't advanced as they are in America, that is why the accuracy rate is so low.
There isn't too much risk with surgical sexing, there is a death rate of about 1 in every 200 birds, all vets are different, it is better to go to an experienced avian vet who has been doing surgical sexing procedures for a few years. I have never lost a bird to surgical sexing and i don't know anyone who has.

To be quite honest, i have never heard of surgical sexing procedures being undertaken without the use of anaesthesia. This is a very dangerous practice as it only takes one small bump to accidently kill a bird, if it were to wriggle around who knows what would happen :omg:

[Booda's Butt]

Jeremy - that's exactly what I was thinking. Birds are so sensitive and squirmy! I can't even get mine to stay still for wing or nail trims, so sitting still for a stranger with a scalpel in his hand is probably way out of the question!

[Janie]

Karin, I watched my avian vet surgically sex a bird while I was at a bird fair last year. I don't remember the species but it was a small amazon, I think. It really was amazing to watch and done very quickly. The bird, of course, was put under for the procedure and started "coming to" very soon afterwards.

[LoveBugs]

I don't think I'm THAT curious in finding the sex of my birds...I rather use that money instead on more treats for them! lol

As w/ the leg bands, all my birds have them.

PP was OBSSESSED with hers though, she would pick at it all day, every day. She picked at it so much, that the metal band actually started to crimp her little legs so that the band could hardly move at all. The tighter it got, the more she bit at it, and the more she bit at it, the tighter it got.

One day I saw some dried up blood on her little footsie, so I took her to her Vet ASAP, and he cut it off in about two seconds. He only charged $7 bucks for it....

I felt bad, cause when he held her, she was able to get him good, and he ended up w/ a bloody finger.... lol.

Other than that, my other birds all have them, and they leave their's alone.

So I think it's just up to the individual.

[LauraO]

One day I saw some dried up blood on her little footsie, so I took her to her Vet .........I felt bad, cause when he held her, she was able to get him good, and he ended up w/ a bloody finger.

Interesting. My vet never handles my birds, no matter how tame and loving, with her hands. She has mastered the fine art of toweling. She says it is best for the bird because they will not associate hands with the vet exams.....Of course, she sees a lot of birds and has had her share of bloody apendages :eek:

[Booda's Butt]

I am so interested in seeing this surgical sexing procedure done now!

LoveBugs - that's exactly why I really have to consider whether I should remove Cali's band or not. I've inspected her leg, and it and the band look fine, but I just worry.

My Vet also towels for the same reason, and I try to make towel games at home for the birds so they don't fear the towel so much, but Booda will just flip out when he sees it coming.

[Janie]

My vet does not towel my birds but probably because I hand them to her and they don't bite.....so far! :D