Another Lovie....Dilemma!

[kimberly1985]

Well, I've been seriously considering getting another lovie so Yoshi could have a friend. I am starting school in August so I want him to have someone to keep him company and vise versa. And I would love to be able to watch two lovies interact with each other also.

I have several concerns. The first one being that I'm not so sure that Yoshi is a boy. The breeder said that she had no doubt in her mind that he was a boy because of his coloring. She said that the breeders genetics only allow them to produce males of Yoshi's coloring. I have the DNA sexing kit to collect feathers or blood but I've been such a chicken that I don't think I could actually do it. And even if I find out that he is a boy, it is very hard to find a breeder who does the DNA sexing themselves.

I've read on here that males and males pair very well together but females and females don't...but this daggum breeder I just spoke with said that two males would "kill each other". And I've already heard about two females being together. I don't want to have a female and a male though. I just don't want to have to worry about breeding and all the worries that come with it. Even though I know the precautions I'd have to take, I still would rather not have to deal with all that. But as I said earlier, it is very hard to find a breeder who DNA sexes their birds. I know that without it, there is a 50/50 chance I could end up with two females or a male and female.

Another concern caused by this breeder...She also said if I wanted Yoshi to remain tame that getting another lovie would be a bad idea. I've heard from people on this forum and a parakeet forum I belong to say not to add another bird until the old bird has been tamed/bonded to you. Well, Yoshi is very TAME. He is a velcro birdy if I've ever seen one. I'd still want him to "love" me but I know that he will probably prefer another bird over me. And I'm fine with that as long as he still wants to spend time with me too.

Someone suggested a hybrid would be my best bet whether it's female or male but I'm not sure how to tell if a lovebird is a hybrid or not....

And I have a question about quarantining? I'm guessing this has to be in two separate rooms also. And after the 30 days, is that when I put the cages side by side for a few days? I'd want them to eventually be caged together...how do I go about this? Let them "play" outside the cages together at first to see that they get along?

With all this dilemma going on about the sex and so forth, I'm not even sure what I want to do now. I just really want Yoshi to have a bird friend.

Sorry for all the babble..I guess I just needed to put it all down in writing...Thanks for anyone who listened and anyone who has any advice, it will be appreciated.

[linda040899]

~shakes head sadly~
DNA sex Yoshi. That's the first thing you need to do. Am I correct in saying that Yoshi is a Pied Green? What colors are the parents? If mom is anything but ino or cinnamon and dad happens to be anything but visual ino or cinnamon but split for ino, then Yoshi could be a genetically sexed male. I have a young OF Green Peachie that I know is a male because of parents' genetics.

Male x male pairs are normally very happy campers together! In fact, I have a trio of males that live together in perfect peace. No squabbles at all and they enjoy hanging out together. With female x female pairs, if you happen to get 2 hens that get along, consider yourself extremely lucky. It normally doesn't happen.

If both birds are tame velcro birdies, paying attention to them will keep them that way. They will have each other when you are not there and they can hang out with you when you are.

After 30 days quarantine, put cages side by side so they can get to know each other. That can happen slowly or in a matter of minutes. I've seen both. Once they are comfortable with each other, leave cage doors open and see what they do.

Hope this helps!

[kimberly1985]

I wasn't sure how to take "shakes head sadly"...I hope you're just concerned with my dilemma and I haven't done anything wrong.

I don't know anything about his parents. I believe he is a pied green...I think you told me that from looking at his pictures before.

I am just so scared about plucking feathers or cutting toe nails...I know this may sound silly to someone whose done it before. If he turns out to be a boy, how do I go about getting a DNA sexed male from a breeder? The two breeders in my area that I spoke to doesn't do the DNA sexing...I wouldn't mind paying for it but I don't want to buy the bird first without knowing. And if I pick one to test, and it's a girl...then money wasted.

Any tips for a beginner trying to collect feathers or blood? I guess I'm gonna have to tough it out...which is easier to do for a beginner?

I've had the kit since the first week I've had Yoshi. I guess I could take him to a vet but I'm sure the price is way higher.

And thank you, Linda, for the advice! I trust you over that breeder any day!

[shadnamber]

hi kim,
I read that the DNA feather test is the most acurate, and that you should be able to pluck a few chest feathers or collect already fallen feathers. Sorry about your dilemma. I have birdie dilemmas also. so your not alone.

[linda040899]

I wasn't sure how to take "shakes head sadly"...I hope you're just concerned with my dilemma and I haven't done anything wrong.
Kim,
No, you've not done anything wrong at all! I'm just amazed at what breeders have to say about various things, such as why a lovebird has to be a male! :) Seems like a couple in your area can use a bit of educating.......

[kimberly1985]

Yea, I agree Linda! She said she'd been doing it for 7 years. Evidently she's been asleep at the wheel. :D

Shadnamber, that's what I was afraid of. I think the nail would have been easier. I'm gonna try to find someone who has more knowledge about it and ask them to do it. I honestly just don't feel comfortable doing it. I am a Nursing student, if it was a human...I'd have no problem.

[shadnamber]

I understand. With a human, they know that there is a reason behind the pain and why there is pain. With an animal, they are like babies and so helpless.
Also, if someone else does it, then you don't have to be the bad guy.

[kimberly1985]

Yes, Shadnamber! I just don't know anyone who could do it. I volunteer my hubby. LOL He ain't gonna do it...I know better than to ask.

So I guess you use tweezers? And do you pluck one at at time or a few at a time?

I was told that you need at least 5 feathers from the breast.

[maya_exquisite]

Having experienced DNA'ing a bird through nail clip, I think I'd opt for the feather plucking if I ever had to do it again... as for plucking one at a time or a few at once, I have no clue.

If Yoshi is male and you want another male, you can get one through a sex-linked couple where dad is a sex-linked mutation (Lutino, Creamino, Cinnamon, Pallid, Opaline) and mom is not. All offspring that are a sex-linked mutation are female and the rest of the mutations will be male. Of course, I'd suggest going to a totally different breeder for this... one that knows what they're truly doing. Maybe you should just have one shipping from Linda! *lol* The breeder needs to have accurate record of who is paired to who so that there are no mix-ups.

[kimberly1985]

Thanks Maya!

I am not going to use that breeder anyways. I found another...just waiting on a returned call.

I am gonna attempt the DNA collecting in the next few days. I'm thinking it would be easier to do the toe nail and I have corn starch to stop the bleeding. Just really unsure right now.

If I could afford the shipping, I wouldn't have a problem. LOL

[maya_exquisite]

Clipping a toenail once as opposed to plucking several times is easier, especially on the bird I'd think... but man, the bird was bleeding all over the place because he kept trying to squirm and the clotting agent wasn't able to do it's job! :rotfl That darn bird!

[kimberly1985]

That's what I was thinking. If you have to clip once or pluck 5 times...I'd choose clipping.

I just don't know yet. I am gonna wait and see if the breeder has any males available first.

And if Yoshi turns out to be a she, I guess she will not be getting a friend. :(

[Enko_chan]

Plucking, I believe, is less painful and less dangerous to the bird. Stiptics are less useful on areas like toenails than fleshy areas- take it from me.

A third option, and one I have used personally, is to use a sterile needle. I personally opt for the ones used for diabetics to finger prick with, as they are sold over the counter in most places. They are sterile. Step one, clean the foot with isopropyl wipe, step two, prick the foot. It bleeds a heck of a lot less than overclipping, better responds to a stiptic and I think is the least painful and most quick of the three.

[kimberly1985]

I like option #3! It sounds a lot less painful and traumatic for the bird.

I don't know what I'm gonna end up doing....

I just know that unless I find another lovie, I don't care if Yoshi is a boy or girl.

Thank you all for all your input and advice. It truly is appreciated!

[kimberly1985]

So I just found a breeder that is less than ten miles away. He seems to know his stuff. He has 4 peachfaced lovies right now that he is handfeeding. They are 5 weeks old. He said that he would call me when they are weaned. (in about a month) He also has Fischers but I know that they are a different species. What are your thoughts? I think it would be best to stick to a peachfaced.

He also told me that he doesn't do the DNA sexing. He said that he'd be happy to make a guess (pelvic) at Yoshi if I brought him with me when I go to look at the babies.

Even though I won't know what the sex of the baby I'm getting will be other than the breeders guess, I'm still gonna try to DNA sex Yoshi before then...and later sex the baby. That way, at least I can be prepared.

I'm excited for myself and for Yoshi! Thanks everyone!

[thebubbleking]

I am lucky i have a in flock tester if sunshine feeds it and trys to do the swishy dance female if sunshine try to bully it and or beak battle its a male lol so far all my birds have been 100 percent correct due to sunshines dna testing :rotfl

[kimberly1985]

Yes, you are lucky!

Does mating (not actual babies...just the act) change the behavior of a fid towards it's human parent?

[michael]

..........He also has Fischers but I know that they are a different species. What are your thoughts? I think it would be best to stick to a peachfaced.

He also told me that he doesn't do the DNA sexing. He said that he'd be happy to make a guess (pelvic) at Yoshi if I brought him with me when I go to look at the babies.........

Your first question is interesting in that after attempting to pair up my olive peachface Goofy, we later found him a little more receptive towards his own colours than any other mutation or species. .. For the record here, initially, I chose to pair him with another male, as I was hoping to avoid the associated eggs/behavior. .. Later though, I ended up adopting another male (B.B. Lovebird), only he's a whitefaced blue series. .. Do they get along?...I'd say its 50/50. .. Problem is, Goof since suffered a stroke, is unable to fly well, and it may be that Beebs, among other traits, had sensed his disability. ... Overall, and this is after speaking to my vets and other breeders, the general consensus was that it is best to pair up like species. .. Still, we know for a fact, that just about any species of lovebirds are capable of bonding. ... Perhaps some others will share their thoughts/experience here.

Have you thought about having the breeder DNA your prospective at your expense? .. If you provide the kit (around $20), that could make your choice a bit easier. . It may also help increase the chances for compatability. ..Something for which may be well worth it in the long run. .. Just an idea.


..........Does mating (not actual babies...just the act) change the behavior of a fid towards it's human parent?

Once you've established a bond/relationship, despite mating response, the extent of it will usually remain intact. .. This does not however exclude any behavior brought about by fluctuating hormones. .. Thats something all parronts must learn to work around, especially with hens. ...........:)

[kimberly1985]

Thanks Michael.

I had asked the breeder on the phone if he would do a DNA sex test on the baby I'd be getting and he said he didn't do it anymore. He didn't like to do it. I offered to pay for it.. I even tried to ask him if he'd help me collect the samples for Yoshi...he kind of led the question to him "guessing" if I brought him with me. He did say that he would do wing clippings and nail clippings for me in the future if I ever needed them.

I'm just gonna have to toughen up and do it myself. I think I can...I think I can...I know I can. LOL

[linda040899]

Under no circumstances do you want to take Yoshi to this breeder's facility! The risk of exposure to illness/disease is the reason. Even if he appears to have healthy birds, PBFD can be carried invisibly for many years before it rears its ugly head.

About a year ago, I had a lady from the Bradenton, FL area contact me and she was looking for 2 young female lovebirds as companions for 2 she had adopted from a person on Craig's List. She sent me photos of her 2 and they looked very nice but I insisted that, because of where she got the birds, she test for PBFD before I was willing to sell my two to her. She thought I was nuts. However, test came back positive and I kept my birds....... Looking at her lovebirds, you never would have had any idea at all that they were PBFD positive.

While this breeder may be close/convenient, if the potential customer wants a DNA sexed bird, that's what should be provided. Pelvic sexing is a guess and I can tell you I've been fooled a number of times! Most noteable is Enko_Chan's lovebird, Freya. I would have sworn that Freya was a female, even though the parents could produce males. Wrong....:blush: Of the clutch of 3 ino babies that I was hand feeding, I thought all were hens, but I really had 1 hen and 2 males.

[kimberly1985]

Thanks Linda for the advice. We were gonna meet in a public place but I see your point.

The breeder did tell me it would be a guess so I know that it's not that accurate.

Yea, I do believe that breeders should provide what the customer wants but that is so rare around here to find someone who does the testing.

I wish more people were like you... :) when it comes to their birdies.

[michael]

........Under no circumstances do you want to take Yoshi to this breeder's facility! The risk of exposure to illness/disease is the reason. Even if he appears to have healthy birds, PBFD can be carried invisibly for many years before it rears its ugly head........

Linda. Glad you made mention the risks of PBFD!

I should also add.... its odd that this breeder is not only willing to clip wings "in the future", but nails as well. Yet he's unwilling to clip short a nail, or pull a couple two three feathers, even at the purchasers expence. .. What this indicates to me, is a breeding practice motivated largely by profit, with almost total disregard towards the health and well being of his stock.

[kimberly1985]

I understand your point.

I am not sure that that is the case with this guy. He is a teacher at the local college in the vet tech program. His prices are on the lower side and he seems to do it for the enjoyment.

But I could be way off.

If I don't use this breeder, my only choice is to buy from someone that could ship a birdy to me. I'm kind of scared about that too. Plus isn't shipping kind of expensive?

[linda040899]

The breeder did tell me it would be a guess so I know that it's not that accurate.
That would be true. Chances of being right are 50%, as are the chances of being wrong 50%. I learned a long time ago that the profit with birds is in the supplies, not the birds, themselves. If you want to save a ton of money, make your own bird toys/accessories!!!

[linda040899]

The cost of shipping with Continental Qwik Pack is roughly $85.00 and shipping is quite safe if it's done properly. I've shipped birds all over the US and never lost one or even had one arrive in poor condition. It's all in scheduling and how the bird is "packed" before shipping.

[kimberly1985]

That would be true. Chances of being right are 50%, as are the chances of being wrong 50%. I learned a long time ago that the profit with birds is in the supplies, not the birds, themselves. If you want to save a ton of money, make your own bird toys/accessories!!!

Yep, 50 % LOL! I've made a trip to Michael's (a craft store) and racked up on beads, hemp string, bells. All for about 15 bucks and I've already got my money back. I've made 4 toys with it and still have plenty to make more.

[kimberly1985]

The cost of shipping with Continental Qwik Pack is roughly $85.00 and shipping is quite safe if it's done properly. I've shipped birds all over the US and never lost one or even had one arrive in poor condition. It's all in scheduling and how the bird is "packed" before shipping.

I guess that's not that bad...if you're going to get a quality/healthy bird that way.

So the cost would be around 150-200 bucks for a birdy.

That's about 4 times the amount this guy sells his for. So I'm going to weigh my options.

Thanks.

[michael]

Kimberly. .. We've found upstanding poeple who ran or volunteered for parrot rescue/adoption agencies who's practices were questionable. .. Some were taking in birds, then never even making the effort to locate them to suitable homes. .. There are also those breeders who carry a sort of conceitedness. One where having an open mind isn't in their best interest.

None the less. .. You can still make a good purchase through this breeder, as long as you follow certain important guidelines. .. A good start, is finding out how extensive this persons breeding experience actually is. .. Have any of his birds ever been examined by a certified avian vet? .. Can he provide those records? .. Generally, because avian vets are non-exclusive to their clients, most breeders have no problem recommending their own vet. And why wouldn't he? .. Afterall, wouldn't he want to provide that information in the event his customers experience an emergency?

Quarantine. .. Absolutely. .. Problem is, even with an extensive quarantine period, unless you institute a thorough wellbird exam, the extended time does little towards safeguarding against PBFD. .. BTW...Many so called wellbird exams lack the provisions needed for proper screening of PBFD. .. Because screening for PBFD is rather extensive in itself, much if not all of the integrity of a breeders stock falls upon its medical history. .. In my eye's, unless a breeder can provide proof of at least the most basic veterinary care, he/she is essentually flying by the seat of his/her pants. ........:2cents:

[kimberly1985]

Thanks Michael! I will keep all this in mind when I talk to him again.

[Mummieeva]

Have you tried www.petfinder.com? They are a website for rescue birds. You have a good chance of finding a sexed bird for a small adoption fee. I am very big on adopting birds(and other animals) and used that site to find birds for myself and a few others. They have a section for rescue/shelters and also a classified section for private owners.

Steph

[kimberly1985]

Thanks Mummieeva! I did a quick search...I found a few budgies in my area but no lovebirds. :( I will keep looking on there. I might get lucky. It would be nice to give a rescued bird a home.

I just would want one that was healthy. I know there are many that have health issues that I am just not ready for.