New mommy sharing some quirky stories :) normal or not?

[lovie_couple]

Well I just got a new peachfaced lovie named Gigi. I had been socializing with it for about two weeks before I brought him home so he would know me, and now I believe he is about 10 weeks old.

A couple of questions. First, even though he eats seed on his own, I also was told to handfeed him for the first few weeks he is home with me. I guess they want to make sure he is eating? Is this unusual or normal?

Also, he tends to sleep on the bottom of the cage, I was afraid he'd hurt his little feet so I took the grate out, he was a bit small to walk on it anyway. Anyways, do babies usually sleep at the bottom?

I think those were my two main question. I will admit I'm a bit tickled with him right now. I expected him to be all timid and scared his first few days home, instead he steps right up on my finger or hand when I stick it in the cage! He also climbs up to my shoulder and hides behind my hair :rotfl ! So I suppose it is good he is not afraid of me. I will admit I'm a little concerned about him eating seed on his own. I haven't quite seen him do it since he got home (he would at the pet store/breeders). But I bought a small scale to weigh him with to make sure he doesn't lose weight.

Anyways, what do you guys think?

[Enko_chan]

Do you have any photos?

These behaviors sound like a younger bird that isn't quite weaned yet, which is probably why they told you to handfeed. Photos will tell and we can go from there.

Weighing daily before he eats anything is a good way to tell if he's getting the food he needs. You're here and asking the right questions, doing the right things!

[linda040899]

Hi and welcome to our community!

I agree with Enko_chan. A photo of front and back (including tail feathers) will be very helpful in determining just how old or young your new baby really is. The behaviors you are describing all indicate a youngster, hopefully, mostly weaned.

[lovie_couple]

He was doing this thing this morning where he sat on his perch and flapped his wings like 100 miles per hour and then reached forward with his mouth open. I assumed he wanted food, so that's when I fed him. He is kinda still doing it too. Like when I put my hand in the cage he backs up and reaches forward with his mouth. I'm not sure what this means :/

I will upload photos as soon as I can get my internet connection to work properly. I can tell you he weighs 39.9 grams though. And that is about an hour after feeding.

[lovie_couple]

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x190/lucky_girl123191/P1070873.jpg

This is the only photo I can get to upload right now, like I said, my internet connection is bad right now, and they can't fix it until Thursday :/ But as for his beak, if that's what you're interested in. It has some black on it, and the rest is yellow.

Oh and I forgot to tell you, he's a little messy in these photos. Since then he's had a bath and preened himself clean :D

[lovie_couple]

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x190/lucky_girl123191/P1070871.jpg

[linda040899]

Thank you for posting that second photo! It confirmed what I suspected but didn't have enough of a reference point. 10 weeks old??? Based on what I see, not quite. Not even close. Let's try just about 6 weeks, if he's lucky. His tail feathering is not full length and that happens at age 6 weeks.

If you don't have a scale, you need to get one and weigh him first thing every morning. True weight is before he's eaten and that's what you want to know. 39 grams is on the light side and you want to make sure he doesn't lose anymore right now. Whoever sold you this baby knew he's not weaned, which is why you were told to hand feed for at least the next couple of weeks!!! >: >: >:

Which formula are you using and how much are you giving him at each feeding? What temperature? This is not your fault, as you had no idea. All you can do is go by what you've been told. I have an intense dislike for breeders like this one!

On the upside, he looks good in the second photo. I'm looking at his feet and those will indicate overall physical condition, too.

[lovie_couple]

Oh wow! I did not know he was that young :/ Well, I'm not sure what formula I'm using, the breeder gave me a bag of powder mix and taught me how to hand-feed. I feed him that about twice a day at around 102 degrees F. He seems to be eating seed pretty well though, he just sat and ate out of his dish for about twenty minutes. I'm taking him back to the breeder on Friday for a check up. I've been trying to give him about 2tsps a feeding, but sometimes he loses interest about halfway through and walks away.

I suppose it is a good thing he is starting to eat on his own though. I will start weighing him before feeding every morning, and let you know how he is doing.

[linda040899]

Increase the temperature of the formula to 106F. His body temp is roughly 106F and the formula should not be cooler than that, at least not with lovebirds. You may find he wants more of it, too. After each hand feeding, be sure to offer a few drops of warm water to clean any leftover formula out of his mouth. When he eats seeds, are you seeing a lot of empty shells?

It's possible that he's chronologically older than 6 weeks, but developmentally he's not. The black splotch on his beak has not even begun to fade and that's usually gone between 3 - 3.5 weeks. From everything I'm seeing, he's younger than you were told. When you weigh him, you either want to see his weight maintained or a gain. A slight loss (less than 1 gram) can be OK but no more than 1 gram in a 24 hr period.

If you have any questions at all, don't be afraid to ask. We will try to get back to you as soon as we can.

[thebubbleking]

i dont understand.... why lie i mean most people would happily wait an extra rwo weeks to make sure a baby is fully weaned...why lie? and why tell someone who never had a bird to hand feed i mean i have had birds for the longest and hand feeding still makes me nervous! I just dont undersand what goes on in breededs like thats mind.
I WOULD NOT TAKE YOUR BABY BACK TO THE SAME BREEDER IF THEY LIED ONCE THEY WILL LIE AGAIN.

[linda040899]

why lie?
Money/bottom line profit! As a breeder, I can tell you that the longer I keep a bird, any bird, in my aviary before I sell it, the less profit I make. Since I gave up the idea of breeding as being profitable a long time ago, this aspect doesn't bother me. I'm not a backyard breeder but I'm also not one who has birds that support my expensive hobby.

As I said after looking at the photos, certain things develop/happen at certain times and the 10 week old age does not fit what I'm seeing. He could be developmentally behind (I've had that happen.) but it's my personal belief that he's not 2.5 months old.

[lovie_couple]

ok, this is the third time I've tried to post this message, maybe it'll work!

I will weigh him in the morning and let you know his weight, about how much should he weigh anyways?

Also, what could be the causes of him developing more slowly if he is older than six weeks? Is it over breeding the parents, or perhaps malnutrition?

He has been eating seeds regularly throughout the day, he especially likes dried papaya and mango! I haven't seen him drink from any of his dishes though, but he did drink when held up to the water faucet.

His behavior seems good. He isn't shy, and is quite curious. He likes to hide under my hair, or anything else he can find. Today he took a nap on my boyfriend's stomach, slightly underneath a pillow. He has started playing with his toys, and climbs the cage alright. He has many different perches he could sleep on, but unless I put him on one, he sleeps on the bottom of the cage. Although when I left this afternoon for work, he was napping on one of his hanging toys.

Anyways, how often should I hand feed him? Is twice a day good enough, or should it be increased? Also if he starts refusing the baby food, is that a good thing?

[lovie_couple]

I just wanted to let ya'll know that Gigi's weight before feeding was roughly 36.7grams (he was flapping his wing so much it was hard to tell!) It's hard to get him to stand still long enough! I also weighed him after feeding to see how much he had taken in, and it was roughly 40-41 grams. His crop seems puffy and full, so I suppose it went well?

I know you said last time that 39grams after feeding was small, should I be worried?

[lovie_couple]

Also, here is his first photo from June 7th

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x190/lucky_girl123191/258034_1798699724376_1146244102_31664604_6734946_o .jpg

[linda040899]

My personal thoughts on this is that Gigi may be eating but it's not enough. That formula is still very much necessary. For age 10 weeks (supposedly), I would say that there's definitely something wrong but if you push that age back to 6-7 weeks, it becomes a bit more reasonable, although it's on the light side.

I need you to do something and I think it will help. You don't know what formula is in the bag you were given but I'm going to guess and say it's probably Kaytee Exact. I, personally, almost lost a baby to failure to thrive, courtesy of Exact, because the formula wasn't digesting properly. If you are out and about (or let your fingers do the walking), see if you can locate a different formula. Lafeber's Nutristart, Zupreem Embrace, Hagen Tropican or even Harrisons are all good ones. Kaytee is the one most pet shops carry so you may have to do a bit of digging to find anything else. I switched my failure to thrive baby from Exact to Zupreem Embrace and that switch is the only reason she survived. I did the switch "cold turkey" and the change was remarkable.

Keep hand feeding Gigi and I would try 3 feedings/day. Also, keep track of the weight every morning.

[lovie_couple]

Even though we obviously do not like the breeder, do you believe it would be best to take him back there for at least the next week to make sure he will get fed properly? I can feed him three times a day, but I am NOT an experienced handfeeder, and that is just a fact. Also, in the next week I am going out of town. Now a bird at 10 weeks to leave with a friend who has owned two birds isn't a big deal, she can handle bird sitting just fine. But now I'm worried he is too young for her to handle, for starters she will have to be taught how to handfeed.

Now I don't mind getting pissy with the breeders, excuse my language, and if I did bring him back for that week, I'd make sure they'd feed him three times a day, and what formula I have given them. I'd also request them call me once a day, with his weight. So if they were slacking off, he would show it.

I'm kinda at a loss of what to do. I hope I can find the baby food you suggested fairly soon. Right now Gigi is sitting on the back of my neck being as quiet as can be. It seems to be his favorite spot :)

I just don't want to lose him.

[linda040899]

Personally, I think you are doing as well as the breeder was doing, even though you don't have a lot of experience! What I would probably do is look around for the new formula and then ask the breeder if you could leave Gigi with her while you are out of town. Just explain that Gigi is still taking formula and your friend doesn't have the experience to handle a baby that still needs formula. Take your own formula and you may even have to offer to pay her for her services but I think that's the best thing to do right now. Wish I lived closer but I'm across the Gulf in Florida.

[lovie_couple]

Should I switch cold turkey. I bought Lafeber's Nutristart formula. Or should I do half and half? He seems to be eating alot of seed now! That's good :)

[summerday]

Hi,

What a beautiful lovebird! I can tell that you obviously love Gigi very much and are doing your best for his wellbeing. I just wanted to add one more thing - try to wean him on pellets, not seeds. All avian vets agree that pellets are probably the best thing you can feed your birds, whereas seeds are too high in fat and are known to cause health problems as the bird ages.

It's really difficult to change a bird's diet once it's established, but it's so easy if pellets are the first food she tastes =D !

I have a lovebird named Summer too, she's about 10 weeks old. I got her when she looked just like your Gigi (So I'm guessing Gigi really is about 6 weeks old), and she was still being handfed. The breeder was weaning her on millets, but when I took Summer to see the vet, he told me that I should feed her pellets.

At first I was really worried because she didn't seem to eat them, she would just nibble at it and crumble it into little pieces =( But eventually she got the idea and now she loves them!

(Oh, one tip : I don't know if it will work for any bird, but at first, it was so hard to get Summer to even put the pellets in her mouth. So I first put one in her mouth, and gave her the biggest praise if she didn't spit it out and started chewing. Then she would look at me with her cute lovie eyes thinking "wow, I started chewing this thing and mommy's looking at me and making noises to me! That's cool - I'll keep doing it!" And started to chew more and more. These guys are very interactive creatures!_

So don't worry about the weaning process, just watch her weight and be patient. Oh, When I took Summer to see the vet when she was roughly 7 weeks old, she weighed 37g and the vet said that was normal - maybe a bit on the skinny side. So If Gigi weighs 36.7g, I guess he could use a little bit more fat as well.


Oh and regarding your last question, I heard that you should first mixi small portion with your old formula and slowly increase the amount.

[lovie_couple]

Thank you very much for your reply! I believe the seed mix he has, has pellets mixed in with it, though I will say Gigi doesn't seem to be too fond of pellets. I bought these fruit, seed, and pellet bars that I tear in tiny pieces and mix in with his food. I might buy a bag of pellets and mix it with his seed, and maybe he'll make the conversion eventually.

I hope to weigh him tomorrow and see improvement.

Of course I'll be completely paranoid while on vacation. I am quite the worry wart!

[linda040899]

I just wanted to add one more thing - try to wean him on pellets, not seeds. All avian vets agree that pellets are probably the best thing you can feed your birds, whereas seeds are too high in fat and are known to cause health problems as the bird ages.
No. My avian vet will be the first one to tell you that more than 40% pellets in the diet of small birds is too much nutrition and can cause death by kidney failure. In the wild, lovebirds are seed eaters and the base of the diet that I feed my own flock is seed. I add a small percentage (maybe 10%) of pellets but the remainder is fresh food. Lovebirds are not big fruit eaters but mine will devour vegetables like they've never eaten before!

As for changing the formula, I would do it cold turkey. With my failure to thrive baby, she would not have lived long enough had I gone 50-50.

============================================
Added: My avian vet and I had a conversation regarding pellets several months ago and one of the things she said is that most pellets are simply ground up seed with extra added "goodies" and then sold in a pelleted form. Pellets are also low fat and that does not meet the dietary requirements for African species, who need more fat in their diets than birds from other global locations.

[lovie_couple]

Thanks guys for all your help! Gigi is up to 40.2grams! That's such a big improvement! Also, when feeding him early this morning, after 1 teaspoon he started refusing his food. Even before then, he was just letting the formula run out of his mouth. He wasn't even using the same "I want food" behavior language this morning. Maybe he is being weaned? I'll offer again around lunch though.

Another thing, right after I handfed him, I offered food from his seed bowl to him, and he has been happily eating away for about ten minutes now.

My little guy is getting stronger every day :D And he seems to really like my company!

[shadnamber]

YAY!!!:)
I am so happy for you. That is really encouraging that he is gaining weight!:happy:

[linda040899]

Now that's a NICE weight gain!!! Great news!

The feeding behavior you are describing is normal. I have a baby that does the same thing. However, if one feeding is on the light side, the next one may not be. Make up smaller amounts of formula but keep offering, minimum 2-3 times/day. His crop is shrinking in preparation for complete weaning so he will take less. That weight still needs to come up.

Now is the time to start introducing warm vegetables. Small pieces of carrot, I grate mine into string-like pieces, sweet potato, corn, peas, string beans and broccoli are good choices. Babies are more open to new things than adult are.....usually.

[lovie_couple]

Ok :) I'll offer him some veggies around lunch!

[lovie_couple]

haha peas were a no go for him, I'll keep trying though!

[linda040899]

Try warm sweet potato offered from your fingers.

[lovie_couple]

Well this morning he didn't seem to want to eat. He chugged about a teaspoon before he insisted on running away from the feeder. I waited a few moments, reheated the food, then tried again, but nope. Didn't want any.

And he dropped to 39 grams this morning. However, he is now eating seed on my lap right now. When he is in his cage, he doesn't seem as interested in food as he is when I take him out to eat.

I'm probably spoiling him... lol

-----------
Oh, and should I buy sweet potato in a can, or fresh, or from the baby food isle?

[linda040899]

Use fresh sweet potato, baked or put in the microwave. I would buy a small one and just heat up pieces.

For his age, the amount of formula he's taking is about right. Weight loss means he still needs it. My one little one plays the same game with me. The appetite will vary, depending on time of day, but there's absolutely no way I would cut back on the formula just yet. If nothing else, offer it. If he takes less, then make smaller portions.

[shadnamber]

I'm probably spoiling him... lol

As it should be! keep up the good work.:)

[lovie_couple]

haha thanks guys. Out of curiosity, does dried fruit have the same nutritional capacity as fresh fruit?

Also, what do I do if there are no certified avain vets in my area? Should I take Gigi to a regular vet that accepts birds?

[linda040899]

If there are no certified avian vets in your area, then you want one with parrot/bird experience. My vet isn't board certified but all she lacks is taking her tests. She really knows her birds!!

Dried fruits are OK but fresh is always preferrable. Good luck getting Gigi to eat fruit, period! Most lovebirds turn up their beaks and walk away...... One of the few exceptions happens to be figs. My backyard fig tree is producing a bumper crop right now and everyone from macaws on down is having a feast!!! And I just planted a second fig tree.

[lovie_couple]

He seems to like dried mango and papaya ALOT. I just bought some carrots, sweet potato, and baby bananas. He seemed to only beak the sweet potato before letting it fall out of his mouth. He'll probably get used to it soon.

I believe there is one vet in my area that sees "exotic animals". Birds included.

[linda040899]

Mine like dried Mango and Papaya, too. I've gotten fresh Papaya, when I can find it, and that's a big hit, too! Whatever floats their boat........ :)

[lovie_couple]

I thought I'd give you guys an update about beloved Gigi!

Well, I left him with a friend while I'm in Arizona, and she just adores him! AND she has fattened him up to 42 grams even. He has been steadily gaining weight.

Thank goodness for his good birdie godmother!

[linda040899]

Thank you for the great update! Weight gain is fantastic! Sure am glad that Gigi is doing well. :)

[lovie_couple]

I have a couple of update pictures of Gigi! I'm afraid me and my friend have spoiled the little devil :rotfl: He only likes to be handfed on my shoulder now, which is extremely difficult, and even then he runs away from the feeder :rofl: So he hasn't eaten much formula lately. Though he eats seed quite often! When he was a baby he ate it out of a shallow lid, but now I'm transferring it to an actual dish since he is up on a perch most of the time now. That'll probably make him eat more.

He has quite the attitude and is a bit of a touch-me-not right now. He doesn't mind stepping up, and having me talk to him, or sitting on my shoulder (cuddling with my ponytail). BUT if you pet him, or try and get him off your shoulder by stepping up. He SCREAMS like you are breaking his legs. It's silly! Maybe it's because he is still young?

Also, my friend bought him a fuzzy birdy bed, and I swear, he practically lives in that thing! Good luck trying to get him out of his hiding spot :)

Anyway, here are the pictures. Enjoy!

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x190/lucky_girl123191/DSC00897.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x190/lucky_girl123191/DSC00891.jpg

[linda040899]

Also, my friend bought him a fuzzy birdy bed, and I swear, he practically lives in that thing!
Let this be for night time sleeping only. Should Gigi be a female, this will be viewed as a nesting spot once she's sexually mature at about age 8 months. Get into the habit of removing it every morning or you could find yourself with bigger problems later on!

As you can see now, the dark splotch on Gigi's beak is beginning to fade. It will be completely gone between 3 - 3.5 months of age and the beak will turn horn colored. Fading starts from the bottom and goes up. The change from baby amber color to horn color goes the other way, from under the nares/nostrils down to the tip.

If you have problems with Gigi on your shoulder, make that part of your body off limits, at least for now. Shoulders are considered dominant positions simply because you can't see well enough to be completely in control of every situation.

[lovie_couple]

Ok! I took your advice and took the fuzzy bed out during the day, but let me tell you. If he sees it, he will go ballistic trying to get to it! :)

Also, any suggestions for helping Gigi warm up to me? He sits on my shoulder and steps up alright. He also accepts little treats from my hand. But he shrieks if i pet him or try to scratch his neck. Is this normal baby behavior that he will grow out of? Or is he still nervous around me?

Also, I've had no luck so far with fresh fruits and veggies. I will keep trying of course. But for now I bought some Nutri berries with peas, carrots, and broccoli. I figure that will give him a good start to tasting new food. Also, I got him the meal bars with sweet potato and berries. He seems to enjoy those as well.

Oh, and my air conditioning went out today! :( It totally stinks, but I have two fans going in my room right now, and one cooling Gigi off, so hopefully he doesn't get too hot!

[kimberly1985]

Sorry to hear about your a/c, the fan is a good idea but does it have a rotating switch on it? I've always heard not to have it directly on them. I could be wrong though.

[lovie_couple]

yea I had it on rotate, and the air is fixed now :D

[lovie_couple]

Well, Gigi is holding out at 43 pounds, and is starting to ignore his formula. So I think my little chick is growing up! :,)

[kimberly1985]

Well, Gigi is holding out at 43 pounds, and is starting to ignore his formula. So I think my little chick is growing up! :,)

LOL That's a big bird....giggles....I know you meant grams.

Glad the a/c is fixed.

[linda040899]

Ignoring the formula is a good thing but just take it slowly. Even is Gigi refuses completely 2 days in a row, offer it on day 3. If she takes anything, wait 2 days and offer one more time. If you hearing begging sounds, it could be she just wants some for comfort. Nothing wrong with this. I have 2 twelve week olds who just like the taste and take, maybe .5 cc. That will stop once I'm not hand feeding my younger 2. Everyone has to share in those leftovers, ya know!

[lovie_couple]

haha I said pounds! That would be terrifying!

Any ideas on getting Gigi to like my hands? He screams when I pet him. He doesn't seem to be scared of my hands. He climbs all over them. He just doesn't like to be pet.

[linda040899]

No ideas whatsoever except just accepting the fact that he prefers no petting. He's not particularly afraid of your hands, since he has no problem being ON them. He just doesn't like them on or over him. Respect his preference and realize that it may or may not change in the future.

[Z28Taxman]

haha I said pounds! That would be terrifying!

Any ideas on getting Gigi to like my hands? He screams when I pet him. He doesn't seem to be scared of my hands. He climbs all over them. He just doesn't like to be pet.

I don't even want to think about how many avicakes a 42 pound lovie would eat. :omg::omg: Who could afford that? :rofl:

[lovie_couple]

haha definitely not me!

Good news is that I think Gigi has just been cranky lately. He was in a great mood yesterday, and today he let me pet his beak and chest. Maybe he just doesn't like the open hand hovering above him.

[Z28Taxman]

haha definitely not me!

Good news is that I think Gigi has just been cranky lately. He was in a great mood yesterday, and today he let me pet his beak and chest. Maybe he just doesn't like the open hand hovering above him.

He probably doesn't like the open hand hovering over him. Even Ditto, who's the most hand friendly lovie you'll ever meet, doesn't like hands hovering over him. But they're great dinner plates and nap spots.

[PurpleLovinRN]

Hi there!

I've really enjoyed reading your story! Gigi is so lucky to have such a wonderful mommy!

By 3 months Peaches would step up, take treats, etc....and was not afraid of hands. However, I could never pet him.

By the end of 6 months or so, he was putting his little head in between my thumb and finger for head rubs! I can cup him in my hand and scratch his beak! Just like us, sometimes he doesn't want the petting...and I respect his wishes!

Looking forward to more stories!:)http://www.lovebirdsplus.com/community/images/smilies/smile.png

HUGS, Lisa :)

[lovie_couple]

Thanks Lisa!

Gigi has his little mood swings. Like today he was quiet and content. Also, though he usually doesn't like to be petted, if my boyfriend makes this weird dolphin noise with his lips, Gigi get's so excited you can pet him for a few seconds without him getting scared.

It's funny, if Josh makes that dolphin noise he completely calms down, and gets all curious to what it is. haha I guess it sounds like another birdie!

He really enjoys running around my shoulders, and jumping from one person's shoulder to the next, and if I make a kissy noise with my mouth, he rubs his little head against mine and makes clicky noises. So I guess that's his way of showing affection right now! :)

The only thing that slightly concerns me is that Gigi used to not mind being put back in his cage, and now I really have to struggle to get him back in. And once I do, he spends at least 30 or more minutes climbing up and down the cage trying to find a way out. (he has now learned how to open the little windows) He will not play with any of his toys either, he just searches for a way out. Only after he gets this out of his system he eats or plays. The only thing is, he like NEVER plays with his toys. His favorite toy isn't really a toy at all! lol It's his fuzzy corner thing next to his perch, and he sits on it, and unties the knots that holds it to the cage. :rotfl

I'm thinking maybe if I rearrange things in the cage, maybe he will make contact with a few of his toys and entertain himself a little.

[linda040899]

The only thing that slightly concerns me is that Gigi used to not mind being put back in his cage, and now I really have to struggle to get him back in. And once I do, he spends at least 30 or more minutes climbing up and down the cage trying to find a way out. (he has now learned how to open the little windows) He will not play with any of his toys either, he just searches for a way out. Only after he gets this out of his system he eats or plays. The only thing is, he like NEVER plays with his toys. His favorite toy isn't really a toy at all! lol It's his fuzzy corner thing next to his perch, and he sits on it, and unties the knots that holds it to the cage.
Gigi doesn't want to go back to his cage because now his preference is being with his human slaves! That's what he's telling you when he climbs all over his cage looking for a way out. Chances are he's never been exposed to toys before he came to live with you so he doesn't know how to play with them. :)

Sounds like you are well on your way to having a velro birdie!

[lovie_couple]

I know Linda! I have a feeling he will always be on my shoulder and running circles around my head! I don't mind though. Today he is in SUCH a good mood. He has been playing with his fuzzy corner and being especially quiet. It's such a weird change.