hormones driving me nuts, i need help

[DallyTsuka]

I have two peach faced lovebirds, male and female but theyre brother and sister, therefore breeding is a big no no. They are so intent on breeding that it is driving me nuts. I dont know what to do. I have rearranged their cages multiple times, moved their cages to opposite sides of the room, but kept them next to eachother so they can at least keep eachother company. Theyre in separate cages. The female has no paper or anything she can shred to make a nest. I have removed the paper from her tray because she would pull that through the grate and shreds it. They are both DNA'd male and female. They are on the long nights treatment, 14 hours a night they are covered for sleep. I have tried fake eggs with the female, she chews them. she wants nothing to do with them. I have even tried giving her a box with the intention of boiling the eggs so i had no inbred babies. but she did not want the box, which i dont quite understand, she wants somewhere OUT of her cage most. anywhere shes found ive blocked off. The male is hormonal too, and he constantly tries to regurgitate to her through the cage bars but does this alllll day and he just sits there glued to the side of his cage, and the female sits on the side of her cage too. he humps his toys, he mates with her out of cage.... i put a solid barrier between his cage to block their view of eachother to calm them down with the regurgitating. but as soon as the barrier is removed so they can still see eachother part of the day , the male instantly starts regurgitating on the cage bars and humping his toys.

i let them out of the cage for some social time together because they are lovebirds and are untame (the male is mostly), and need interacting with their flock... as soon as i open the cages for them to come out, he runs into her cage and they start mating and he starts feeding her. he is losing a small amount of weight (3 grams in 3 weeks) thats not a concern yet but i do not want it to be a concern.

i do not know how to reduce the hormones. the female seems to want to nest in the cage bottom in the corners, but ive put big rocks in the corners so she doesnt have corners to nest in... doesnt matter to her. i am at my wits end.

i cant rehome one because in our area homes are really poor for birds like lovebirds, budgies and cockatiels. theyre throwaway pets here. so i will not rehome them, they will not get the proper care they need. i cant move them to separate rooms, i live in an apartment and their screaming would tick my neighbours off. i also have cats and have no other place to put the cage where it would be out of reach of the cats. so they have to stay in the rooms they are in. i am at a loss as to what to do to reduce the hormones. i feel bad for the male the most. i cannot cage them together either. besides the fact that theyre siblings (i have to boil eggs if she lays anyways because they mate out of cage, so siblings isnt the biggest concern), the female after awhile beats up the male and chases him around and bullies him from food and perches and has fought over a perch and made his foot bleed a little. so caging them is not good for his health. but the hormones are just horrible. i am at a loss and no one can offer any advice that can work well.

ive clipped the females wings for attitude adjustment. i am considering clipping the males wings if it helps, but i do not think that will help the hormones.

[MissLissa]

I hope you won't mind if I ask a few more questions...

How old are they?
What are they eating?
Do they sleep where any sound is (eg, where you watch TV at night)?
Are their cage covers dark and light-blocking?
What kind of enrichment do they have access too (eg, toys)?
How large are their cages?

What time do they go to bed, and what time do they get up?

14 hours of darkness is a lot. 14 hours of darkness would mean your birds are awake for the 8 hours you are at work, and then only for an additional 2 hours a day. This would mean if they are getting up at 8am, they are going to bed at 6pm. Is this correct?

[DallyTsuka]

ok

they are in individual matching cages, 28"tall 19"wide 19" deep

i just took this photo now (theyre in bed). the cage cover i rolled back, its a dark sheet, its very good for complete darkness. we have TV on, but have since the day we've got them, we keep it low. we cant sleep without it on. the birds are kept in our bedroom. the fleece blocks at the bottom are to block the feeder doors. they were nesty under those food bowls so i got smaller clip on ones that they cant use as a nest. but cant move the feeder doors... have to block them off. the sheet on top, its dark on top, and lighter colour brown below. but it blocks out light very very well. i cant see the lovebirds when i peek in on them before bed to be sure theyre in bed lol munch tends to try to sleep clinging to the cage bars. they have sleeping tubes, munch does not see this as a nest, she only sleeps in it. during the day, it is very much ignored.

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100_6626.jpg

They are covered at 8-9 pm and uncovered 10-11. some days i work until 8, those are the days they are covered at 9. I am home in the evening longer, so i spend my social time with them then.

They get out of cage time at LEAST 2 hours a day, usually longer (i have to divide the time with the cockatiels who are not allowed out with the lovebirds) and some days are tight with my work schedule. but they at least get 2 hours out of the cage. They have multiple playgyms to play on

also they have a LOT of toys, foraging options...


they are fed mainly seed (pellets are refused to no end, have already tried everything there too, so its not happening) as their staple dry food, but theyre given fresh veggies daily. these include: carrots, kale, peas, corn, brocholli, cooked green beans. they also get fruit: strawberries as a rare treat, blackberries (they love), raspberries, grapes, and blueberries. They also get various types of mash (soaked mashed pellets, seeds, veggies, fruits, etc) and they love that. hard boiled eggs, rice and pasta as occasional treats. bread as an even rarer treat, i stick with whole wheat. they have a cuttlebone and mineral block, fresh water and seed daily. water bowl is scrubbed daily upon changing to prevent bacteria from growing in the bowl. they also have spray millet and pumpkin seeds as treats

cages cleaned at least every other day. This includes wiping down the grate with water-vinegar mix to remove poop and disinfect it. they have a variety of perches. they get baths as they please (in their water bowls!)

they just turned a year November 7th 2010 and November 12th 2010.

we had them on 12 hours, did nothing for long nights treatment... so we upped them to 14 which still didnt help.

some enrichment they have:

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100_4626-1.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100_4637-1.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100_4704.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100_4082.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100B2523.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100B2537.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100_8677.jpg


they weigh good weights too

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100_1848.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100_1850.jpg


their "mash" (they havent had this in a few weeks however! so its not a cause of nestiness, as the worst hormones started last week!)

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100_9713.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/TsukaDally/munch/100_9820.jpg


i think thats all the questions...


i also want to ask about something thats got me confused

both have been DNA'd. mango is a boy, munch is a girl

but normally they mate normal... but the odd time ive seen mango present himself like a girl and allow munch to mate with him that way! i dont believe the tests were wrong... but theyre both acting like mixed genders. both act male and female. like mango acts male and female but not as nasty. just the presenting himself wings spread, tail raised and allowing munch to mount him! and munch humps her toys like a boy and mounts mango and its just very very messed up. has ANYONE had this happen? does anyone have any idea how to tone down these hormones???


ive rearranged the cages too. changed location in the room, rearranged inside and out....

[DallyTsuka]

anyone :(

i really need help

thanks for the help then....

[DallyTsuka]

ok THIS is why i do not come on here anymore. THIS IS WHY! i RARELY ask for serious HELP and i get IGNORED! I know this thread has been seen with over 30 views. i have asked for help BEFORE in regards to BITING that is affecting my birds flock! and i got NO advice and guess WHAT, now my tiel nearly lost his TOE because i got no advice and i am at a loss. gee thanks for all the useless help, no wonder i've lost any interest for this forum. i get no help when i really need it. I know you can offer advice, you do to countless others, but you also ignore when someone needs help. so thanks for the very helpful help ive gotten. last time i ever ask for advice on here because its been useless trying. i have only come lately for help when all other help was not working.


thanks misslissa for actually responding, but i will not be coming back for a response. i do appreciate your help.

to those who have been kind to me, sorry this is nothing personal against you. im just tired of needing help and getting ignored. ive done nothing to you, i dont spam you, i dont attack members, so i dont get why i am ignored.



>: >: >: >: >: >: >: >:

[thebubbleking]

alot of us cant answer right away because of work scedules computer time etc...alot of of us look but dont know the answer to help so dont want to give wrong information...also posting in the i need help now section helps.
Sorry if we cant answer please keep in mind we come from all over the worls in all different time zones and have flocks and famileys to do before we get online. sorry and wish you the best.

[michael]

ok THIS is why i do not come on here anymore. THIS IS WHY! i RARELY ask for serious HELP and i get IGNORED! I know this thread has been seen with over 30 views. i have asked for help BEFORE in regards to BITING that is affecting my birds flock! and i got NO advice and guess WHAT, now my tiel nearly lost his TOE because i got no advice and i am at a loss. gee thanks for all the useless help, no wonder i've lost any interest for this forum. i get no help when i really need it. I know you can offer advice, you do to countless others, but you also ignore when someone needs help. so thanks for the very helpful help ive gotten. last time i ever ask for advice on here because its been useless trying. i have only come lately for help when all other help was not working.

thanks misslissa for actually responding, but i will not be coming back for a response. i do appreciate your help.

to those who have been kind to me, sorry this is nothing personal against you. im just tired of needing help and getting ignored. ive done nothing to you, i dont spam you, i dont attack members, so i dont get why i am ignored. ......

I'm sorry you felt ignored, however, there may have been several reasons why you haven't received a more expeditious answer. .. As Jeremiah noted, many of us do have schedules that keep us from responding right away. .. And, even if some of us are here, not all administrators/moderators or members may have what they feel is the right answer. . Some, including myself, only specialize in certain area's. .. Rest assured, that due to the complex and often abstract nature of avian care, nobody, absolutely nobody wants to offer advice that may end up doing more harm than good.

After reviewing your post yesterday evening, I personally felt the inquiry by MissLissa may help shed a bit more light on things. Afterall, hormones + diet + environment can sometimes make a huge difference. Trust me, its appreciated when members who are having difficulties are willing to provide as many details as you. .. Sometimes though, even with those details, there are really no precise answers anyone can provide, but rather, tried suggestions we can only hope will work, especially when there's hormones involved.

As per your details though, I took that liberty to consult with friends and family to see if we could provide any reasonable answers (I only keep two males). .. I also piled through countless threads here too. ... With regards to the information you provided, most everyone I spoke to felt you've relegated everything quite well. .. Problem is, you've seemed to have covered many of the same bases they would have, which in turn, doesn't leave a whole lot of options, certainly none that could be thought of without further ado. .. Also, at 1 year of age, your birds just turned into full time hormonal adults. Again, in most everyones view, there's always going to be some issues with breeding and aggression. .. We don't however, understand how one of your tiels could lose a toe if their offered separate time out from your lovebirds, unless of course, they're allowed access to their cages. That in itself is a recipe for toe bites, many of which we've shared ourselves :(.

Despite how you feel, your always welcome here. .. Should you do so, we'll also take the time to keep the spam off of you. ...............:)

[Z28Taxman]

alot of us cant answer right away because of work scedules computer time etc...alot of of us look but dont know the answer to help so dont want to give wrong information...also posting in the i need help now section helps.
Sorry if we cant answer please keep in mind we come from all over the worls in all different time zones and have flocks and famileys to do before we get online. sorry and wish you the best.

Also many of those 30 views could very well have been google, yahoo bots indexing threads. Search engines routinely 'click' threads on message boards to catalog them. That's how you can find threads via a google search.

You're not being ignored, we do want to help.

[personatus]

They are a bonded pair that want to be together, you can help control the hormones but you can't control their feelings. That's the downside of having a male/female pair and trying to keep them seperated.....

You can't blame your tiels injury on people who never "helped" you on a forum ... if you have a problem with an aggressive bird, surely it's common sense to keep it away from other birds?