Change in what you can see in the egg

[Daiqattack10]

Everytime i've candled the two eggs i've been able to see the chick's eyes and see them moving inside. Today, no light even shines through the shell. Does that mean they're about to hatch?

[linda040899]

Normally, an egg "draws down" or loses moisture inside so the air cell becomes much larger. When you see that begin to happen, the chick is in the beginning stages of hatching. If the inside of the egg appears to have a dark reddish coloring, the egg contains a viable chick. If the chick dies before it can hatch, the inside turns an amber grey color.

[Daiqattack10]

Yesterday i candled both eggs and they were both viable. The babies were taking up nearly the whole shell. The inside was red and i could see their eyes and little twitching movements.

today, it is literally black. Like no light is shining through. Is the chick just so big it's blocking the light? I have been using the same light to candle.

[Daiqattack10]

Looks like my hunch was right, just went and peeked in the box and theres little spiderweb cracks on the shell. :)

[OoLovebirdieoO]

yay :) I got excited when I saw that. If everything goes well can we have pictures :) good luck!

[linda040899]

Looks like my hunch was right, just went and peeked in the box and theres little spiderweb cracks on the shell. :)
Sounds like the baby is ready. Are you? :) Please let us know how it's going!

[Daiqattack10]

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/562906_445830705437306_995934033_n.jpg

sorry for the quality, my iphone is the only camera i got right now :)

egg at the top has a little pip mark.

(the reflective thing on the side is a tiny dry erase board haha, thats the only thing i can use to slide in over the hole to keep momma bird from tearing me apart.)

[linda040899]

Is there movement inside the egg? I see the spot you are talking about. Seems like an awful long time for this chick to hatch but I don't want to say anything without some additional input.

[Daiqattack10]

I haven't wanted to disturb it but i just went and checked because you worried me lol :).

Yes there is movement in both eggs. The baby's beak is right by the pip mark and i could feel him moving around. In the other egg i could not feel movement but there is little spiderweb cracks on the outside of the egg and when i shined the light through i could see him moving.

[Daiqattack10]

I think momma bird is focusing on the one hatching as well, that one was especially warm to the touch.

And tomorrow would have been the hatch date for her first egg laid had it been fertile, so i was right about the timing being perfect lol :)

[linda040899]

As long as there's movement, that's good. He'll be out of that shell hopefully very soon. The hatching process is much longer than most of us realize. Typically, it takes a baby lovebird 40 hrs from start to finish. It can take longer with larger parrots.

[Daiqattack10]

I can now see him inside the shell, the hole is larger. He's definitely breathing and moving :)
How long after hatching should i wait to feed him?

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/552477_445854315434945_772195332_n.jpg

[linda040899]

Oh wow! He's making progress now! The other fertile egg is just to the right side of this one, isn't it? The shell has a bluish cast which indicates a fertile egg....

You're out of my area of direct expertise right now but I don't think babies get fed right away. I know baby parrots don't. I usually check the abdominal area to see if I can see any of the yolk sack left through the translucent skin. That will take about 3 hrs to absorb completely. The yolk is what gives the baby the energy to break the shell during the hatching process. If he's hungry sooner, he'll let you know in no uncertain terms!

I'm learning here right along with you.

[Daiqattack10]

Yes, that is the other fertile egg. As well as being a different color they're a little bigger than the lovie eggs.

The baby hatched while i was out to eat with my father ( didn't want to go but he's a soldier and this is the first chance i've gotten to see in him a year and tomorrow morning he's deploying to Afghanistan) What a surprise to find a little wiggling baby with whitish down under my lovie. I was going to remove the baby but she thinks it is her own and is keeping him warm.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/427089_445943838759326_1894607813_n.jpg
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/427089_445943838759326_1894607813_n.jpg)
this is what i came home to!

He's now resting up against the other eggs with a full crop. I need name suggestions!

[apaulick]

its so cute!!! its great to hear your lovie is treating him like her own. ill pray for a safe return for your dad.

[Daiqattack10]

I just went and checked on him and he had a lot more energy to wiggle around and move his head more

Baby's crop is definitely emptying good :)

[Daiqattack10]

Feeding #2

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/526395_445981748755535_896846966_n.jpg

brought momma bird along so she can supervise. Daddy kept the other fertile egg warm. :) she sat on my wrist while i fed him. So precious. I forgot how nice she is when you get her out of the cage.

[linda040899]

Glad the baby hatched and he really looks good! The primate chow has always worked well for me when I have to feed wild baby birds.

You never know how a lovie hen will react to what hatches in her nest and it looks like yours has accepted the baby as one of her own. Hey, she's the best "incubator" you could wish for, as her body temperature is constant. I guess she realizes that she can't feed it because beak shape is different so she's doing the next best thing, keeping it warm. If she wants to go with you when you take the baby to feed, I would let her do that.

What's going to be interesting to see is what happens as the baby grows. Being a dove, it won't be very long before it's not much smaller than she it. Her nest could get a bit crowded very quickly! You're going to have to play it by ear as to what you will do at that point if you've not had to remove the baby before that. Additionally, the second egg hasn't hatched yet, either. By all means, I'm very interested to hear how this plays out.

Prayers and good thoughts for your dad in Afghanistan.

[Daiqattack10]

Thank you guys for the prayers for my dad. He has been to Iraq five times and now this. :/ At least this time he is staying on the base instead of going out in the fields.

I know! I've youtubed handfeeding baby doves and the fledgelings get so big, so fast, I don't know how two of those big babies are going to fit in the nestbox. We shall see :lol . I have a bad feeling about the other egg though, i don't know why.

Here is Sterling (thats his name :clap ) after his feeding just now:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/530127_446094252077618_1852414377_n.jpg

his crop is emptying very well and he is able to hold his head up better every time i pull him. He has yet to make any noise though :confused: i'm not sure if this is normal or not.

[linda040899]

Sterling has grown already and he really looks good. Feet/legs are nice and plump, which means he's getting what he needs.

Is there still movement inside the other egg? Could be that there was more time separating these 2 eggs than you might have first expected.

At one point, I had a Fischer's lovebird hen feeding a baby Tiel and one of her own chicks. Feeding technique is different but momma lovebird figured it out. Within 2 weeks, I had to take the baby Tiel because momma lovebird was feeding it while the baby was in the box and she was outside the box! it was almost the same size as she was!!! Her baby was doing just fine, which amazed me. How long the baby Dove will be able to stay where it is is hard to predict.

[Daiqattack10]

I'm glad he looks good to you. Every time i open the nest box I'm worried about what I might find. I got attached the moment I candled his egg and saw movement and I'm so scared that something might happen to him, especially with both mommy and daddy bird in the nest box at night and he keeps getting rolled onto his back.

I just checked his sibling's egg and finally i saw a little head movement by the air pocket. I hope that means he'll be making his grand entrance into the world soon :rotfl

That's so funny about your lovie raising a tiel. I've seen a lovie hatch and raise a quaker baby for a few weeks until my friend had to pull him. These are such amazing little parrots.

And on the bright side, my lovebird pair is getting experience with these babies :happy: except i hope when they have their own that they do not expect me to feed for them :x

[linda040899]

I'm so scared that something might happen to him, especially with both mommy and daddy bird in the nest box at night and he keeps getting rolled onto his back.
Hatchling lovebird babies are fed while laying on their backs....... Makes perfect sense to mom! He doesn't look any worse for the wear but I would make sure you keep an eye on him. Might be a bit confusing for the lovebirds because I'm sure this baby has its own ideas about which way it wants its body positioned!

[Daiqattack10]

Well that makes sense why i keep finding him rolled over, although i read somewhere that dove babies can't breath well on their backs. He's been using the other eggs to lean against so i think that is helping. Momma lovebird tramples all over him when i open up the nest box so i've had to come up with increasingly clever ways to get her out of the box. She's feisty!

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/582046_446178082069235_1591452151_n.jpg

Good for size reference :) He's actually holding his head up a little here, he's definitely getting bigger!

[linda040899]

As he gets bigger, she won't be able to roll him over. He really is growing and looking good. You are doing a wonderful job with him! :)

[Daiqattack10]

Thank you! I just fed him, he's such a good eater! Though I'm sure it'll get harder once his eyes open.

Sterling with a Full crop (http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/208857_446215602065483_1583652927_n.jpg)

I went to double check on his brother/sister. Pip mark visible in his sibling's egg, i'll have two dovelets (thats my term for them:rotfl) tomorrow!

Thank you so much for being here for reassurance and question answering Linda. I really appreciate it!

[linda040899]

Not a problem! Actually, it may get easier once he opens his eyes. The he will see when you have food and respond accordingly. You know you could end up with 2 pet doves............

[Daiqattack10]

OH NO, MORE PET BIRDS ;) .

hehehe. I'll update you tomorrow morning either about Sterling or if his sibling has hatched. I can't wait to do a size comparison between them to see just how much he has grown.

[linda040899]

:lol :lol :lol :lol
You will be amazed at just how much Sterling has grown in the short time you've been feeding him!

[Daiqattack10]

Sterling made it through the night, although he doesn't look as good today as he did yesterday. I'll take a picture of him at his next feeding. :( .

There is a little beak sticking out of his sibling's egg, and the baby is breathing and moving in the shell. He'll be out soon :happy:

[Daiqattack10]

Scratch that, we've got two dovelets in the box now. Sterling and his younger sibling Spyro :)

[linda040899]

If Sterling isn't looking as good as he was, you may have to remove him from the nest and keep him separate from the lovebirds. I know that momma lovebird considers him to be hers but she also treats him as she would a baby lovebird, which he isn't. Watch his enthusiasm when he eats, as that's an indicator of how he feels and watch to make sure his crop is emptying.

[Daiqattack10]

I think he was like that this morning because I spaced the time out a little longer between feedings during the night so this morning he was probably really hungry. He only went 3 1/2 hours without eating though. I usually feed him every 2 to 2 1/2 hours.

His crop is emptying, though it seems like he has air in it as well.

He pooped on me this morning :) good to know things are going through!
He also discovered his little voice in the last hour. He isn't screaming or anything but he makes cute little noises. He is doing much better since this morning. He is eating great still. The slit in his eyelids has become more apparent overnight as well.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/578716_446446802042363_1886423408_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/427468_446446538709056_327998496_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/179918_446446305375746_96423309_n.jpg


Should I feed the other baby the next time i feed Sterling? I think Sage hatched around 12, and Sterling is due for his next feeding around 3 or so.

[linda040899]

I think it's safe to feed them both together the next time you feed Sterling. Always start with the youngest one first. I think it's an automatic thing with me and it has to do with the amount of moisture in what I'm feeding so I just do it now because that's the way I was taught. :) Sterling looks good. Give him another day or so and you will see both eyes open. 3.5 hrs between feeding may be just a tiny bit too long right now.

Babies have adorable little voices when they finally discover that they can make sounds. :)

[Daiqattack10]

I fed them both, It went very well. Spyro pooped again, and his brother/sister rolled in it. I set them both on a clean towel when i went to feed them, and instantly they both toppled over onto their backs and started rolling around and kicking their feed. Sterling even started peeping. It was the funniest thing to watch.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/553589_446469762040067_2004912231_n.jpg

Now that Sterling is almost two days old and the other baby is here i think i can breath a sigh of relief. I'll keep you updated if anything else happens :)

[linda040899]

Good deal! You may have to create a little cup shaped container for them to be in when you take them out to feed them. In the nest, they are normally upright and it's because of the shape of the nest. You will probably have to duplicate that for them when you take them out, at least until they are strong enough to sit up by themselves.

Sterling is only 2 days old? My goodness! Somehow I've lost track of time, although I've been very busy on the home front......

[Daiqattack10]

When I feed them I have a finger on each side of their head to keep it steady, just for guidance and support and then feed with my other hand. They manage to stay upright like that. :D

And yes I know, it feels like i've had my little Sterling munchkin for way longer, but then again the amount of feedings i have to do make it seem like a long time. I wouldn't have it any other way though.

I wouldn't have guessed you've been busy, you've been here every step of the way for me ;)! I really appreciate it, once again.

Ok i swear, last pictures for a while. I'm a little camera happy if you hadn't noticed. Lord help me if/when I ever have non-fid kids.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/384653_446489585371418_1306775883_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/208919_446489858704724_1785345984_n.jpg

I wonder why Sterling is bald and why his sibling has darker skin? hmmmmm. :confused:

[linda040899]

I love to see photos of the babies! You don't have to worry about overload there! It's very interesting to watch them grow. While we are mainly a lovebird community, other species are definitely welcome!

The darker skin on the younger one is most likely because he's just hatched a short while ago. As for Sterling's missing down feathering on his head, I believe he hatched with it but rubbing the down feathering against the nest box bedding can easily remove it. I've seen that happen with baby lovebirds, especially when momma lovebird seems to think Sterling should be laying on his back like a baby lovebird would! Hey, gotta give her a lot of credit. She's doing a great job at what she's supposed to be doing with these 2!

[Daiqattack10]

Update for the Dovelets (that sounds so much better than squabs):

They both made it through the night! To be honest, before they hatched i never thought they'd make it this far, but i had to give it a shot because it would have been certain death for them otherwise.

Sterling poops almost every time i pick him up and i see little poops in the nest so we know things are going in and out like they're supposed to. They're nice and solid and look like mini lovebird poops. :) Oh, and he yawned this morning! It was so precious. Doves have long pointy tongues! Sometimes they poke their tongues out when I'm feeding them.

We decided to change Spyro's name to Sage (the plant, white sage is grey like a dove) because it's more gender neutral. Sage is verrrryy active compared to Sterling. From the moment he hatched he hasn't stopped wiggling and rolling.

Sterling has some little pins coming in on his wings, still no eyeballs yet though.


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/403943_446741992012844_1294294974_n.jpg
Sterling Left, Sage Right.

[linda040899]

They look good and I've always found that the primate chow will do the trick. :) Yup. What goes in the north end will be coming back out the south end. Even when I hand feed baby lovebirds, they immediately poop when I pick them up to feed them!

Watching them go from hatching out of the egg to full grown bird is nothing short of amazing. I'm not quite sure how long it takes with baby Doves but I'll do a bit of research to find out.

[Daiqattack10]

It's a lot less time for doves than lovebirds, i can tell you that :)

Sterling has started bobbing his head for food! Usually i have to gently pry his beak open a little and then when he gets a taste he starts to eat, now i can put my fingers on either side of the corners of his beak and he instantly stretches his neck out and goes back and forth, still clumsy but he's getting stronger!

[linda040899]

Sounds like Sterling is catching onto the routine very quickly, which is a good thing. Pretty soon, you'll go in to feed them and they will greet you with classic open baby mouths, begging for food! :lol

[thebubbleking]

To cool an awsome thread but um...i think all the forum members have said "no more birds" and ended up with atleast one more so good luck with that!!! XD

[Daiqattack10]

Haha, they're like potato chips, you can't stop after one....



For Linda: my lovebird momma bit one of the babies this morning :( its not bad, just a little cut on the side of his head, but enough to bleed a little. How worried should I be? She didn't do it out of agression towards him, she did it when I was returning him to the nest.

[linda040899]

Since she didn't do it intentionally to hurt the baby, what you're going to have to do is chase her out of the nest and block the entrance while you put the babies back. They are hers, from her perspective, because they hatched in her nest. She will defend them with her very life if she thinks that harm will come to them.

You can try tapping on the back of the box and tell her that you brought her babies back. I do this when I take babies and when I bring them back. She will associate the routine and understand what's about to happen.

[OoLovebirdieoO]

I'm finding this thread really interesting, I can't wait to see what the doves look like in a couple of weeks! I hope the baby's cuts okay. what kind of doves are they?


You can try tapping on the back of the box and tell her that you brought her babies back. I do this when I take babies and when I bring them back. She will associate the routine and understand what's about to happen.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who taps on the outside of the nest box to let them know whats going on. >o

[Daiqattack10]

I do try and chase her out, she's very protective though and won't go, and if i try and block her she freaks out and climbs out the top of the box and attacks me.She won't get out of the box otherwise. I have to use an oven mitt to pull her out and put her somewhere else to grab the little guys. She's progressively biting harder and getting smarter about avoiding me -.-.

[linda040899]

I always tap on the nest box before I open it. After all, it's momma lovebird's home and I would get upset if someone just opened my front door and came in!!!

[linda040899]

I do try and chase her out, she's very protective though and won't go, and if i try and block her she freaks out and climbs out the top of the box and attacks me.She won't get out of the box otherwise. I have to use an oven mitt to pull her out and put her somewhere else to grab the little guys. She's progressively biting harder and getting smarter about avoiding me -.-.
Darn! She's really protective of those babies, isn't she!!! You can believe she'd be a wonderful momma to her own babies should she ever hatch any. To her, these are babies and they are hers. That's all there is to it. About the best you can do is do your best to protect the babies when you put them back.

Have you tried taking her with you when you feed them? That would get her out of the nest initially so putting the babies back afterwards might be a bit easier. Not sure, but it's a thought!

[Daiqattack10]

I'm finding this thread really interesting, I can't wait to see what the doves look like in a couple of weeks! I hope the baby's cuts okay. what kind of doves are they?

I believe they're either morning doves or ringnecks, not 100% sure though because i never saw the parents. All i know is they aren't going to be white because white doves are born bald or almost bald and my babies came out hairy little beasts :rotfl


Have you tried taking her with you when you feed them? That would get her out of the nest initially so putting the babies back afterwards might be a bit easier. Not sure, but it's a thought!

Yes, i have tried taking her with me. She's a very cage aggressive hen. If i get her out and bring her, she'll just walk away and leave the babies with me and go exploring all over the kitchen. Then when I go to put them up, the moment she sees the cage she dives for it and won't let me touch it to put the babies back. I have to take her out and put her in a little travel cage using an oven mitt or a rubber glove unless i get lucky enough to sneak in while she is out playing with her toys (she loves her toys, she wont come out to eat because she makes my male feed her, but she'll come out for a drink or to play with her toys!) and then i can block the entrance and grab the babies. I think it's more the cage than the babies, she was like this before she ever laid her eggs even though it got a little worse afterwards.


Oh and Linda my babies both gave me a scare last night. I fed them like normal and then when i went to feed two hours later their crops hadn't emptied at all. So i waited another two hours (after checking on them every so often so i could feed them if it emptied) and still they hadn't emptied much. When i picked them up i could see the liquid in the bottom of their crops and when they rolled around it was clearly sloshing around in there. I made their food really watery because they had already gone four hours without eating and gave them a little.

I went and checked on them again after four hours and their crops had emptied mostly, but not all the way. I carefully massaged their crops and it seemed to help, and then i fed them again. The next time i checked on them (two hours later) their crops were empty. I don't know what made that happen but it was with both babies not just one so it had to have been something I did. Maybe temperature or something? i've been feeding around 106 degrees. I'm thinking since i make the food before i get the chicks out so that they don't have to be out from the warmth of momma bird any longer than they have to be, that i probably made the food and then had trouble getting them out because of Coquina (momma bird) which would have allowed it to cool too much. I'm just glad they're ok now, and eating good and both are talking now.

[linda040899]

Gheesh! You can't win for losing with this hen!! Cage aggressiveness is not uncommon with female lovebirds. It's just that some are worse than others. I've had a few really bad ones in my breeding career so I know what's going on! There's nothing on the planet any faster than a cage aggressive hen once she sees you approaching her "domain." :lol

You may want to ease up a bit on the liquid with the babies. They need a bit but sounds like too much may not be a good thing. Once they reach two weeks old, you may be able to feed them around 11 pm and let them sleep through the night until sunrise. The parents don't hunt at night so they fill the crop nice and full and that's it till morning. The operative words are "may be able to." Let's see what happens.

[Daiqattack10]

I found a way to get my babies out away from momma without losing half my hand in the process >;]

As I said, momma bird LOVES her toys, I figured out if grab the clip that hangs her toys in the cage and jiggle it she comes flying out of the box and attacks it lol :) Then I can slide something in to cover the hole really fast and pick up my dovelets.


Bird: 1248273894324, Human: 1

[linda040899]

Bird: 1248273894324, Human: 1
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

At least the human has 1 victory.......... Good deal!

[Daiqattack10]

Sterling passed away about an hour ago. :very_sad::cry: I knew there was something wrong, his crop bloated up really bad. He was just starting to open his eyes today too :( And he stood up in my hand for the first time about three hours ago.

I know what happened, my roomate's girlfriend tried to feed him and the food she gave him was too cold and thick so he couldn't digest it and it made his crop fill up with gases :( I'm never letting another person touch my birds again.

[linda040899]

I just responded to your PM and came here. I'm so sorry to hear about Sterling. :( I've also learned the hard way that you don't let anyone else feed babies that you are feeding. If not done correctly (and most inexperienced people tend to hand feed incorrctly), the baby can aspirate and that will cause death.

[apaulick]

*hugs* I'm so sorry about sterling. its amazing how these helpless little creatures steal our hearts.

[apaulick]

how's your other little dovie doing? any new pics?