Load Mouth Lovebird Getting Worse: Please Help!!!

[Emz3]

So, this is why I joined this community, in hopes that someone here can help me with a growing noise problem!

My male peach-faced lovebird Lee Loo, is approximately 11 years old. He has been a wonderful tame little man since I found him. He has never tried to bite, he learned "step-up" with ease, he comes when called, and can poop on command...when he wants to! He is flighted and I have never had to trim his wings. We spend time eating treats outside and he really seems to love everyone! Men, women, dogs, new people, everyone!

Right now, I am having a major problem with him screaming! He spends a great deal of time in his cage. However, I recently started working from home about 6 months ago so he does get several hours out of his cage each day or at least 3 days a week. Now, I can't have him out of his cage all the time. In the past I have bought him those free standing perches or cage top perches, thinking he would like to spend time there instead of his cage. Well, Lee Loo is always on the move. He doesn't stay put for long.

Lee Loo also has an OCD problem with regurgitation. When I got him I was young, still in high school and I never corrected him for this behavior. He regurgitates on everything, primarily during "mating season" in the spring. Due to this, I have had to remove all the fun toys out of his cage. He can't have anything fuzzy, he can't have mirrors, he cant have anything with shredded paper, he can't have things that are shiny like bells, all because it triggers his regurgitation. He has always been thin because of this. (45-50G) His OCD is so bad that if he doesn't have any toys, he will regurgitate on himself. I have taken him to my avian vet for this and there isn't much we can do. We tried giving him a hormone suppressant but that didn't help. The winter of 2010 was the worst, he regurgitated from about October to about June. 9 months of agony! Over the last year he's been better. He only did it for about 1 month (Last month actually) triggered by me cleaning his cage. ...oh and he masturbates... (according to my vet that's what he is doing...gross!) anything, soft like a towel, pillow or my dogs are fair game!

Anyway, I'm telling you this because I can't add fun new toys to his enclosure, I can't rotate toys. He only has about 4 toys he can have, which adds to his boredom/frusteration, I'm sure!

He constantly screams for attention while he slams the cage door open and closed. He wants out. It doesn't help when I have him out for hours either, the minute I put him back in the cage the screaming starts! ...and in the last week, he is refusing to go back in his cage. The minute we get close he flies away. I'm having to get creative about how I get him back in. I don't want to man-handle him.

...anyway, this post is getting long so I'll stop for now. Please if you have any thoughts I would greatly appreciate it! My boyfriend of 10 years has had it with him! I'm afraid he's gonna give me the "it's me or the bird" talk!

[Pips mom]

Wow.......and I thought Pip was a little handful!! There are some similarities to Pip here, like the humping everything, and opening and dropping his cage door when he wants out! With Pip though, he's very good about going back in his cage for me, and he stays put in the "bird area" for the most part, probably because he has his best buddy Ivy there and he doesn't like straying too far from his flock. I let Pip stay out alot because he does fine with it and also Pip has always been a fairly quiet lovie. I'm very lucky that Pip does not regurgitate!! He humps alot though and that's ok with me........I let him hump away. He used to hump so much that his feathers on his lower chest area would always have thin spots and look ragged! He seems to have calmed down with the humping thing over the years, but it's still the first thing he does when I uncover them in the am! I have kept Pip clipped over the years, but he could still fly fine and get around. Right now is the longest I've ever gone without clipping him........he has all his flights grown back except one I think and he still goes right back into his cage for me at night to sleep and when I go to work......goes right in on his own, all I have to do is show him this hat that I used to use to shoo him out from behind the cage! As mischievous as he is......he's still such a good little guy at times! (Pip will be 6 in Oct.)
I'm really sorry for all you and Lee Loo are going through. I'd definitely get him clipped though........not too severe, just to slow him down a bit.........plus if he's clipped, that also helps keep him in the area you want him to stay in, so may give him the opportunity to be out more. I really don't what to tell you when it comes to the noise.....my Pip has always been a quiet guy. Also.......to help curb the hormones, make sure to give him more sleep time.....10-12 hrs. is what they need so try 12 hrs. and see if it makes a difference.......if you haven't already tried this. I'm sure some others will have more advice for you.

[Emz3]

Thanks Pips mom! Pip sounds like a real cutie!

You offered some good advise! I have never clipped Lee Loo and the thought makes me sad...BUT, like you said, if it gives him a chance to be out more, it might be worth it... I'll have to consider it, but that's a tough one for me!

Now that I know better, I do discourage Lee Loo from humping. I tell him "No" and he stops when I tell him, but he will go back and try again if I'm not watching. Two weeks ago, he literally chased my Labrador around the house trying to hump her. He followed her from room to room until I finally had to put him away! lol!

He does get 12+ hours of sleep already. Generally we turn off his light and close the door to his room (a big walk-in closet) around dusk, so I'd say around 7-8PM. We open him up again in the morning around 9AM.

Hopefully some other members can give me some insight as well! Thanks again!

[JohnUK]

Emz3: Do you think this is anything to do with Kiwi not being around anymore? Have you considered getting Lee Loo another companion even if they are kept apart?

[Emz3]

Hi JohnUK, I don't think it has to do with Kiwi being gone. Kiwi has been gone over a year now and they were never all that close. Lee Loo's behavior problems have started to get worse in the last few months. I have thought about getting him a female friend but I think my boyfriend would kill me if I brought home another bird.

Unfortunately for me, Lee Loo will be the last pet bird I have! :cry:

[linda040899]

First thing you have to do is fully understand what's going on. Lee Loo is a sexually mature male lovebird and the behavior you are seeing is perfectly normal for him. Baby lovebirds are adorable but they will grow up and mature. While we can spay/neuter cats/dogs, we can't do that with birds. Lee Loo's hormones kick in and they affect his behavior immensely. Males do the self-satisfaction thing, while hens can be chronic egg layers. There are hormone shots for hens but even those can have side effects and will only last a period of time before they have to be re-done.

Some of my males have been worse than others, and it doesn't matter if they have mates or not. The behavior is what it is and the best you can do is perhaps try to distract him. Foraging is a great activity and that's what all birds do in the wild. Perhaps keep him busy looking for food and it will lessen the self-satisfaction urge (maybe, no guarantees!).

Flight feather clipping is a very personal decision and all we can do is suggest. A mini wing clip has always worked well for me. Instead of clipping 6-8 flights, only clip 4, maybe 5 so it will limit how far he can fly but it won't eliminate flight ability.

These are just a few of my own thoughts that I'm putting out there for consideration. :)

[Emz3]

Thank you all for your feedback. I may have to seriously consider trimming his wings. He has been a rather naughty boy lately with his not wanting to go back in his cage.

I can deal with the whole "self satisfaction" thing. I have for years. The regurgitation is something that bothers me though. It bothers me because he gets really thin because he is not ingesting his food. He also goes through so much water. By the time I get home his water dish is bone dry! It also smells horrible and is hard to clean his cage! I do foraging behaviors with him like sprinkle seed or millet on the floor. He likes that! I have even taken him to work with me in the past. Not much distracts him from the regurgitation unfortunately when he is really bad.

I even went as far as giving him the Lupin Injection (I think that's what it's called). My vet said that it was primarily used for females but it was worth trying with him. It didn't help at all. I will continue to deal with his male...issues... but it's his noise level that is troubling right now. Is this connected to the above problem as well?

He was a little quieter today. He started out screaming and slamming his door the minute I woke him up. I had him out for only a short time this morning and was gone most of the day. When I returned this afternoon, he was a little quieter. Does anyone have any other recommendations for his screaming? Is there anything I can do to modify that behavior? Is there such a thing as a birdy sedative? (Not that I would go that route!)

Even as I write this my boyfriend jokes with me, saying "I hope you don't come home to a dead bird tomorrow!" He would never really do anything to poor Lee Loo, but I know the noise level is hard on him too!:omg:

[Pips mom]

Is there anything I can do to modify that behavior? Is there such a thing as a birdy sedative? (Not that I would go that route!)

There is this product. I don't know too much about it, except I've heard that it's safe and know someone who's used it. I was tempted to try it with my pionus Ivy as she's very uptight and scared of everything! I think someone here mentioned something about giving their birds chamomile tea also.
http://www.avitec.com/AviCalm-Calming-Supplement-p/calm.htm

[michael]

Of two male lovebirds I keep, one of them, "B.B.", according to our vet, was considered extremely hormonal. .. An incessant preener, humper, regurgitator, noisemaker, every move he made revolved around taking care of his improvised flock. .. In hopes of curbing his so called neurotic behavior, we tried everything from environmental changes to hormone therapy. With exception to the hormone injections, not much really worked. And while hormone therapy did, in my eye's, it proved to be too much of a health risk. Lets just say, any lovebird who instantly becomes lethargic and overweight, can't be all that healthy. Don't get me wrong though, progesterone/lupron therapy can be of huge benefit, but in my view, its better suited for a hen who carries a high risk of eggbinding due to her overproduction of eggs.

B.B. who is now 11 years old, is still going strong, and in essence to all his neurotic tendencies, through it all he has proven himself to not only be a caring and protective lovebird, but a very healthy one at that. About the only thing that helps settle him down, is a good soaking wet bath, and a place to snuggle into after a hards days work. .. And oh yeah, we did cut back on the millet. Seemed the more millet, the more regurgitate .............:nyah:

[linda040899]

Seemed the more millet, the more regurgitate .......
Interesting. Millet is often considered birdie "candy," but one of the positive aspects of it is that it contains quality protein. Up the food protein level and I can see where it could have an affect!

[Emz3]

Thanks Michael! BB sounds A LOT like Lee Loo! Lee Loo also has a diagnosis from the avian vet. It literally reads "sexually frustrated" on his health record! I either don't know or don't remember the health risks of the hormone injection. I guess, luckily for us, it didn't work for Lee Loo so I never went back in and did another.

A bath or shower is the only thing that works to calm him down too! He likes to bathe in my cupped hands while the faucet runs over them. He hates getting a shower with the spray bottle.

That is also interesting what you mentioned about the millet. Lee Loo gets a variety of foods, like Harrison's pellet mix, fruits, veggies, cooked pasta, rice, crazy corn and some seed too. He is a very picky eater though - always has been. He often picks out everything he likes and leaves everything he doesn't like. I rotate his diet too and lately he has been getting more seed. (which he loves of course!) Maybe I should try rotating his diet back to something healthier...hmm...

I'll try some of the recommendation you all mentioned, although it doesn't sound like there is much to quiet him down while he is hormonal. Lee Loo is also strong and healthy at his 11+ years of age. His blood work is always squeaky clean. If my boyfriend doesn't kill him first, I think Lee Loo will be around to annoy us for a good long time!

[thebubbleking]

Tell your boyfriend if you come home to a dead bird nexttime you come home will be to a dead boyfriend! Some of us forum members a pretty big guys heck dave is a tax man!!!!

[Emz3]

Ha Ha! Thanks Bubble King! Good to know you bird guys have Lee loo and my back! Fingers crossed some of the recommendations help a little! Otherwise we will be noise proofing the bird room!

[thebubbleking]

well a busy beak is a quiet beak so mabey some forageing toys " plain brown lunchbags with treats inside) or if owrse comes to worse go to a pet store "just to pick up food" and let him listen to the macaws or sun conures like i have THOSE are loud! He be lveing a little lovebird chirp in notime XD

[apaulick]

he can come listen to my green cheek conures when they get going!!!

[Emz3]

Thanks again all!

I have a vet appointment for him next week. He's due for his annual so I figured I would get that done and get his wings clipped at the same time. :(

My good friend is the director of the Birds of Prey Foundation and she also has 3 big parrots of her own. She gave me some really great tips yesterday about food and feeding. I currently have food available to Lee Loo at all times. She recommended that I start feeding him twice a day. She mentioned that the constant. plentiful supply of food could be triggering his hormones to stay in "sexy time" mode for longer because the food is always available. She also mentioned changing his diet. I had gotten lazy with his feedings lately. He had been getting more seed than usual. So it's time to cut that out! She also gave me the name of a behaviorist that she really liked. So I will be calling her next week too. Oh, and she also agreed about getting his wings clipped...

I know most of Lee Loo's issues are because of me. I just want him to be happy and I know he is frustrated right now! We'll get there

[linda040899]

In the wild, lovebirds are mainly seed eaters and whatever else they can find. Additionally, since they are native to Africa, it's known that African species need a higher fat content to their diets than parrots from other places around the globe. Unless your friend has African Greys or other species of parrot that are native to Africa, she may not realize that she's given you poor information. In the wild, parrots spend quite a lot of their time foraging for food. I would still keep food available at least most of the day but make Lee Loo work to find it. If you change the diet, I would cut down on protein and add more veggies.

One thing I've found with living with larger parrots is they are only hormonal once/yr and mine have food available 24/7. Even though they live in captivity, those cycles correspond to their natural cycles. For instance, with Monty, my Double Yellowheaded Amazon, around the middle of December, his hormones begin to kick in and that corresponds with natural breeding cycles. It's winter here but Amazons are from South America so it's spring/summer there.

[Emz3]

Unless your friend has African Greys or other species of parrot that are native to Africa, she may not realize that she's given you poor information. In the wild, parrots spend quite a lot of their time foraging for food. I would still keep food available at least most of the day but make Lee Loo work to find it. If you change the diet, I would cut down on protein and add more veggies.

Thank you. My friend has an African Grey, a Yellow Crowned Amazon and a Military Macaw. She also recommended foraging activities. I will try hiding his food within his cage. Although, I'll have to get creative. Not sure how I'll go about that yet. Do you have any tips? He's always eaten out of a dish or on the floor. In regards to diet, that was kind of my plan - provide more veggies and pellet and cut down on the amount of seed. I'm not going to do any drastic changes before I talk to my avian vet. I trust her and she is well known in the exotic community for being a good bird vet. I'm going to take the information i've been given and run it past the vet as well.

I may post something in the diet section as well to see what others recommend!

[Emz3]

I just wanted to give you all a quick update on Lee Loo. I have changed his diet and that seems to be helping! I taken 99% of the seed out of his diet. He now gets peas, carrots and a "Bird Street Bistro" mix (split corn, rice, and millet, etc) in the morning. He now must eat all of that in the morning before I give him any more in the afternoon. I will give him a seed treat sparingly. I'll hide it in his cage so he must find it.

Changing his diet alone seems to be helping. He has stopped screaming and is now back to his chirping and squawking. The regurgitation has really slowed down! I removed all his trigger toys and replaced them with cardboard type toys that he can chew and destroy! He is also willingly going back in his cage, both by himself and when I take him back.

I also have a vet appointment for him next week and I think I will get his wings clipped then.

So thank you all for the tips and advise. We've only been doing this for about a week so hopefully he is on his way to being a happy bird again!

[linda040899]

What a wonderful update!!! I'm so very glad that this is working for you and it sure sounds like Lee Loo is much happier for your efforts!

Wing clipping is a very personal decision and, hopefully, it will work out. Those feathers will grow back and how you want to handle it afterwards, again, will be your own choice. :) The only advice I have is decide just how many feathers on each wing (both need to be done, as this will affect Lee Loo's balance if it's not done correctly. If you want just limited flight, I would start with 4-5. Some lovebirds are strong fliers and this may or may not be enough. It's a matter of seeing how many it takes to achieve what you are trying to do. Make very sure that the person doing the clipping knows exactly what you want done. Each person has their own idea of how to clip flight feathers and what happens may not be what you want. Not short enough in much better than too short!

Again, I'm so glad to hear that Lee Loo is doing so much better! :)

[Emz3]

Thank you for the kind words Linda! It is a relief for me to have him calmer and happier again. (That was a really weird spell!)

...now you have me a bit nervous about wing clipping! My parrot friend told me the same thing you did about doing just a little clipping to start off with and making sure I take him to someone that wont butcher him. This is the third avian vet I've been to through out Lee Loo's life and I really like her. She is definitely the most knowledgeable bird vet I've found!

Do you think most avian vets would know how to clip wings properly?
I think he is a strong flier, unfortunately. Do you have a recommendation on how many feathers to trim? He hasn't had a trim in 11 years. (I think they were clipped when I first found him.)

Thanks again for all your suggestions! It's hard to find people that know about birds, let alone lovebirds!

[JohnUK]

Emz3: If Lee Loo is now calmer and hasn't been clipped for 11 years then why start now? I like flying birds but that's just me!

[linda040899]

Emz3: If Lee Loo is now calmer and hasn't been clipped for 11 years then why start now? I like flying birds but that's just me!
You took the words right out of my mouth, John! A couple of my parrots have clipped flights, but many don't. I clip feathers to limit where mine can go. A good example of this is Ginger, my CAG. She's wild caught and very social but not tame up close and personal. She loves to be where I am but will not sit on my hand/arm or any other body part. Next to me, yes. On me, no. Ginger's flights are normally clipped because she can be very destructive and likes going to high places. She's clippped t keep her off the top of my curtains and blinds. When Ginger goes through a period where she's behaving, I let her flights grow back.

If you are happy with the situation as it is, I'd leave everything as it is. Believe it or not, some vets know how to clip flight feathers, while others don't. The only thing you need to make sure of is that the procedure is done properly. My current vet (who I also really like) knows how to clip flight feathers so I don't need to say anything except how many feathers, if I were to let her do it. I clip them myself but I would trust her.