To hold or not to hold?

[missdea]

Hi all, my 10 week old love bird Pez (not sure of his/her sex) is adorable. I've had him for just over 3 weeks, and he came "hand raised", but as I've read here regularly that doesn't necessarily mean he likes hands or me!

He is so happy in his huge cage with toys and many perches that he doesn't seem to want to venture out much. I leave the roof and door open whenever I'm home, and he's placed in the living room so he is a part of the family. When he does come out (maybe every second day when I'm cleaning out his cage - and that's only because he's afraid of the noise and size of the newspaper), I'll catch him and hold him for a bit (which he hates, so he bites), but once I let go, he's content enough to climb up and sit on my shoulder for 10-20 mins before flying away and making his way back to his cage. But if I don't clean his cage out, his doors can be open for 8 hours and he won't come out at all! And I can't catch him in his cage, it's too much of an obstacle course, so I'm currently waiting until he leaves his cage before I catch him for a quick cuddle.

I'm desperate for him to love me, so I sit as close as I can to his cage for 1-2 hours a day talking to him and eating with him, but he doesn't seem to be getting any less afraid of me. He still freaks out when I put my hands in his cage to give him fresh veg or change his water.

So after everything I've read (and I feel that I've read this forum inside out) and heard (also a lot!), I'm still confused and concerned that I'm not doing it right - do I force handle him to get him used to me (the breeder said I must hold him for 15 mins a day or he'll turn into an aviary bird, someone else said I must handle him A LOT in his first 6 months), or do I just continue to hang out with him until he learns that I'm not going to hurt him and wants to come to me on his own terms (as everyone here seems to suggest)?

I love it when he sits on my shoulder but I hate that I have to chase him to catch up first, and I don't want to do the wrong thing and have him be scared of me, but I also don't want to end up with an aviary bird who is afraid of humans!

Everyone keeps saying "it takes time"... but how much time? Could it be a year before he comes to me? Do I literally not touch him at all during that time? And what do I do in the mean time to increase bonding? Just continue to sit with him? I'm avoiding wearing red around him, or looking him in the eye, and I talk to him constantly, but nothing seems to be warming him up to me.

Any advice would be so greatly appreciated, as he's my first bird and wow, I just didn't realise how unlike any other pets a bird could be!

Thank-you

[starwynde]

They are so cute when they are young, but I think you might have a baby that is hand fed, not hand raised. And yes, there is a difference.

My first suggestion would be to clip his or her wings. By limiting the ability to fly, you have a bird that is a little easier to work with; a panicked bird in flight is apt to fly into a window or other hard object and hurt itself. **Note: if you have dogs or cats, make sure they are not in the room with you when you are working with a clipped bird** And while the talking is good, you should start working your hand (starting with a dowel or other perch like object if you're worried about being bit) into the cage while Pez is in there and not when you are cleaning the cage. Pez already likes your shoulder, so you need to get him used to your hands. Eventually it will click that the hand is connected to the arm, which is connected to the shoulder, which is his "happy place" on your person. Do keep in mind the cage is "his" space, and chasing him around it will only confirm in his mind that if he's not safe from scary things coming in after him in his house, then there is no reason to go outside and be chased by more scary things. But he is also very young still, and will learn. You've shown patience talking to him, and while he still freak outs about your hands, the more familiar with them he gets, the easier things will be.

Also, as any owner will attest, bribery goes a long way too. I was given a lovebird purchased from pet store that housed them in open top Plexiglas displays where anyone that could reach in could chase the birds around until they were able to grab one. Needless to say, when I got him at about 8 months of age (according to the store owners... seems nobody wanted lovebirds who bit... go figure :omg:), he was petrified of people in general and hands were things to be hissed at and bit, hard, if they got too close. He spent nearly all his time cowering in the top corner of his cage. Due to the way the birds were housed, Tiki came to me with clipped wings, so my only real concern was getting him used to being handled. It took a couple of months to get him to calm down enough that he didn't hide in the corner of his cage every time I was in the room with him. It took another month for him to start playing with toys. And once he discovered his millet hanger, he was in birdie heaven. I then started working with him every day by holding the millet he loved so much in my hand at the entrance to his cage. I actually had my couch set up in such a way I could rest my hand with a few little pieces of millet in it at the cage door opening while I tried to tempt Tiki. It took two weeks of this before he finally ventured down to my hand and another few weeks of letting him feed out of my hand and talking to him before he finally started to warm up to me as a person, and not the "millet giver". In all, it took between 4 and 5 months to tame a very anxious bird to a point where he was willing to step up onto my hand.

Keep in mind, however, every lovebird has a different personality, so you can't have expectations of what Pez is willing to do based on what other people say or what you see on the internet (I think everyone wants a bird like the one on YouTube that falls asleep on it's owner's keyboard though, so cute). Some are cuddlers, some like head scratches, and others other don't care for much more than sitting on your shoulder trying to make you go deaf. I had one that liked to crawl under my shirt and park himself right in the middle of my cleavage and sleep, and another who, while he would step up onto my hands, wouldn't cuddle at all and preferred to hang off my glasses and chew on my earrings. Even Gem has his preference, which for the most part is cuddling up in the palm of my hand and letting me rub his head and face for hours on end.

But don't worry, you are on the right track. My mom used to tell me "Rome wasn't built in a day" and the same is true for developing trust with a lovebird. There is no set time that determines when a bird is comfortable around it's person. In my own experience, I had extremes from 5 months with Tiki to 1 week with Gem, my current not-so-feathered friend (a completely different thread for that story lol). As for you and Pez, keep doing what you are doing, but incorporate placing your hand in his cage while he is in there and just doing nothing. Don't chase him, don't touch his food or water, just hold it there. Do it multiple times a day for longer and longer periods, and slowly get closer and closer to him with your hand. And as I mentioned, if he has a favorite treat food (millet, Nutriberries, etc) you can use that to tempt him as well. Eventually, he will realize your hand isn't a threat and you will be able to get him to step up onto your hand.

You're going to have to take this one step at a time and gauge what Pez is comfortable with. Don't force the issue and just have fun. Lovebirds are very curious, especially when they are young. And don't forget you have everyone here in the community to help you out with any more questions or concerns you may have, so don't hesitate to ask!

[JohnUK]

missdea: When I got my two (parent raised) last year any tameness that followed was at their choosing. I started by offering food through their enclosure bars and that progressed through to them touching my fingers and learning that I wasn't about to eat them. After a few months they started having daily free time.

Sadly, one died this year but the other now flies to me when 'she' wants to and not when I wish her to.

Slightly different to your desires but I wished my two to have a natural life as possible (within the constraints imposed by captivity), including flying. I just love seeing Vida flying about with relative freedom :-)

Please allow Pez to progress in 'his' own time and you will be rewarded with a long time feathered friend!

[longobongo]

Hello missdea! About a year and a half ago I was pretty much in your shoes. I had a 3 month old lovebird that seemed to hate me. I was so eager to touch and play with her that I honestly didn't even give her much time to adjust being in a new cage. I was told all of the same things, put your hand in her cage with some millet and wait. So I did. Again and again and again and again. For about an hour or two a day every day. It took almost a month to make any kind of breakthrough. At first Bailey attacked my hand and and bit my fingers but eventually she was more interested in what was in my hand to be afraid of my hand any more. At this time, Bailey would also leave her cage if I left the door open, to explore the room. I was told she was clipped but she was able to get back to her cage no problem.

After Bailey regularly took millet from my hand, I was able to get her onto my hand and out of the cage and the rest is pretty much history. You just have to move slowly and avoid doing things that will cause Pez to associate your hands with negative things.

What really opened Bailey up was working with her when her cage was not present - so in a room other than the cage room and also showering with her. Bailey was not happy about showering with me at first, so I just put her on a shower caddy so she didn't have to get wet. At first she would insist on sitting on my shoulder even if it meant she got wet because I was the only form of "safety" in that shower that she knew. In the shower is where Bailey let me pet her for the first time too.

So in about 12 months time Bailey went from an aggressive, hand-hating lovebird to a semi-aggressive (towards everyone but me), hand-loving (if they're mine) lovebird. Which I think is good progress! Each lovebird is different, though. This is just my experience.

Even as I'm typing this Bailey is wedging herself between my hand and the keyboard, waiting for scritches :)

[Pips mom]

First thing........you've only had this bird for THREE weeks! That's very little time! My first bird was a cockatiel and it took about 10 months for him to really feel comfortable with hands, and all that. It takes time! Time, meaning weeks, months! I think you are probably doing everything just fine, but what you really need to do is just calm down and relax and just let nature take it's course! Birds can sense when you're uptight, worried, or concerned, and if you're always thinking, and worrying if you're doing something wrong, he will sense that. As far as holding for a little while, and getting your cuddly time with him.....alot of people may tell you that is wrong, but I've always done this with Pip and it never hurt our relationship at all. Birds are smart, and I truly believe that Pip realizes my need to just hold him sometimes, and they learn quick if you don't hold them for long, they realize that you'll let them go after just a short time, and eventually will just sit there, waiting to be set free! Pip never likes it when I hold him, but he accepts it and he'll nip just a bit, but no real bites and sometimes no nips at all! I look at this way.......I put up with him and all of the mischeif he causes! so he puts up with me holding for a few minutes once in a while! :lol All you really have to do with your lovie is give your love, time and patience. Believe me!!! if he's sitting on your shoulder already, then you're going to end up with lovie who wants to be with you and on you all the time! Not necessarily touching with hands, as Pip still hates this, but you can still have a strong bond and a best buddy. It will happen, I promise!!!!:) Just take a step back, take some deep breathes, relax, be happy,stop worrying, and just do what comes natural.......try to respect his space, ohh, and some great new toys, like maybe a nice playgym, things with bells or a swing, and try to put things like this outside of his cage somewhere to get him to want to come out more! oh and try eating your dinner or lunch by his cage.......the flock always eats together! Soon you will know your little Pez, you'll know his likes, dislikes, you'll learn what each chirp means, and he'll learn to know you too. We are very different from birds so this takes time, we can't communicate to them like we can with other humans, but once you know him, the communication will be there, easily! without words! Just enjoy your time with Pez......someday it will be hard to remember the day when you had such a hard time getting him to come to you!!!!

[missdea]

Thanks so much everyone! I've never owned a bird before, nor been around any as pets, so this is ALL new to me. And I really want him to be happy here with us!

So what I've learnt from you all, is that I just need to sit back and chill out :lol My expectations are too high. I feel much better having an understanding of just how long it can take, so thanks.

Pez's wings were clipped by the breeder, but I don't plan on clipping them. I'd feel mean :confused: I still want him to have the freedom to move about as he pleases.

I bought him heaps of toys but he doesn't care for them. He loves climbing on the branches and a ladder I made out of ice cream sticks, but the toys I bought I've never seen him interact with. Actually, his favourite toys are the iron cord and the ironing board!
He also doesn't have any interest in treats yet. I've tried all of the recommended ones and continue to offer him little bits of everything but no luck yet.

Since your advice a few days ago Starwynde, I've been holding my hand in his cage for 2 hours a day, and he is definitely getting calmer. And we've stopped catching him to put him back in the cage and just let him make his own way back in there, and when there's only one of us around, he has actually started venturing out more. So I guess we are making progress..!

Okay, I'm going to go and relax. Thanks for all of the really great, sound advice! I really appreciate it :) He's completely changed the dynamics of the household (I rush home from work to hang out with him now!) and I love having him here, and I really want him to be happy too!

[JohnUK]

missdea: I think it's natural to have high expectations. As you are finding out, simple home made toys usually get more attention. From what you describe it seems like Pez is slowly getting used to his new life with you.

[Pips mom]

Thanks so much everyone! I've never owned a bird before, nor been around any as pets, so this is ALL new to me. And I really want him to be happy here with us!

So what I've learnt from you all, is that I just need to sit back and chill out :lol My expectations are too high. I feel much better having an understanding of just how long it can take, so thanks.

Pez's wings were clipped by the breeder, but I don't plan on clipping them. I'd feel mean :confused: I still want him to have the freedom to move about as he pleases.

I bought him heaps of toys but he doesn't care for them. He loves climbing on the branches and a ladder I made out of ice cream sticks, but the toys I bought I've never seen him interact with. Actually, his favourite toys are the iron cord and the ironing board!
He also doesn't have any interest in treats yet. I've tried all of the recommended ones and continue to offer him little bits of everything but no luck yet.

Since your advice a few days ago Starwynde, I've been holding my hand in his cage for 2 hours a day, and he is definitely getting calmer. And we've stopped catching him to put him back in the cage and just let him make his own way back in there, and when there's only one of us around, he has actually started venturing out more. So I guess we are making progress..!

Okay, I'm going to go and relax. Thanks for all of the really great, sound advice! I really appreciate it :) He's completely changed the dynamics of the household (I rush home from work to hang out with him now!) and I love having him here, and I really want him to be happy too!

As long as you feel this way, feel confident that you'll handle your lovebird just the way you're supposed to! How you feel will always show through and Pez will know! You're doing a great job with him! Smile and enjoy! all good things will come in time!

[JohnUK]

missdea: Hope all is going well with little Pez and you. I forgot to post this before but are you still avoiding eye contact with Pez? If so then it's ok to look into Pez's eyes. There's nothing wrong with looking at Pez's eyes so long as you don't stare without blinking. I feel that making normal eye contact is all part of the bonding process.

[missdea]

Thanks for the advice JohnUK. I am making eye contact with him (felt too unnatural to avoid it for too long!), but I take care not to stare and it doesn't seem to unnerve him.

Unfortunately we've not made much progress yet, I can get a bit closer to him with my hand in his cage but he's still not tempted in the slightest by any treat I hold in my hand. Nor can I get any branch near him for him to step up on to.

And he's once again reluctant to leave his cage. I did just put some fresh branches in there that he's having a ball stripping, so maybe he's having too much fun in there now.

Does anyone have any advice on what I do with the millet spray? It arrived today and it's enormous! I was assuming (from other posts) that I was meant to hang it around Pez's cage in several places until he learnt that he loved it and then use it to bribe him, but it's 3 times the length of him! I can't imagine any treat is meant to be offered in that large a quantity! So do I just break little balls off and leave them on the floor?

Thank-you!

[michael]

.........Does anyone have any advice on what I do with the millet spray? It arrived today and it's enormous! I was assuming (from other posts) that I was meant to hang it around Pez's cage in several places until he learnt that he loved it and then use it to bribe him, but it's 3 times the length of him! I can't imagine any treat is meant to be offered in that large a quantity! So do I just break little balls off and leave them on the floor?

Thank-you!

There are millet holders available at most major pet stores or even online. You could also use a clothes pin or a hair clip. Also too, if you find he takes to the millet, then you might try placing it in a dish somewhere outside his cage as a way to entice him out. .. About the amount you should offer, I generally only give my lovebird a piece cut the size of my index finger. Reason is, most birds already get enough millet in their seed mixes. .. If, on the other hand, you find that the millet isn't exactly his favorite thing, other foods such as nutriberries/avicakes, popcorn (unseasoned), or even fresh veggies (many seem to love broccoli florettes), can act as a "treat" as well. ..............:)

[JohnUK]

missdea: It took my two about 2 months before they would even have food off me through the enclosure bars. Soon after they were no longer afraid of my hands (but still bit :-) ).

I securely tie an whole spray of millet in the enclosure with string. Spray millet is available at all times. I didn't like the plastic millet holders because Vida found a way to prise the millet out and it ended up being soiled on the floor. I haven't found that Vida (and previously, Amor) ate millet spray at the expense of other leaving other foods.

[starwynde]

missdea:
I securely tie an whole spray of millet in the enclosure with string. Spray millet is available at all times. I didn't like the plastic millet holders because Vida found a way to prise the millet out and it ended up being soiled on the floor. I haven't found that Vida (and previously, Amor) ate millet spray at the expense of other leaving other foods.

Same thing with Gem. I can put a whole sprig in his cage and he will chew off it for a bit, then go find something to chow down on. I don't have a plastic millet holder, but one made of dried wood. Millet goes inside and Gem has to hang off it and poke around inside to get any reward from it. Keeps him busy and when he's had enough, off he goes to find something else to do. Right now, it seems to be giving his popcorn a bath... <sigh> :roll:

[missdea]

For anyone who is interested:

Pez has, in the last week, just started eating millet out of my hand! Hurrah! He will only take it if I hold it out about an inch away from the end of my fingers, but he's slowly getting closer! I'm thrilled :)

However, he has stopped flying. He used to get up on top of his cage and practise flying in different directions away from his cage. But he hasn't done this in nearly 2 weeks. It's like he's worked out his wings don't work (the breeder clipped them) so he's given up flying and is content just to be a climber. Should I be worried?

[linda040899]

We are always interested to read updates and hear about progress!! :)

Sounds like Pez is learning to trust your fingers, which is a good thing! Keep working with him.

You say he used to fly. Did he get very far when he attempted flight? How many of his flight feathers are clipped? If he tries to fly and falls to the floor or other surface, he probably realizes that flight doesn't work right now. However, those flight feathers will grow back and you will see a change.

[michael]

For anyone who is interested:

Pez has, in the last week, just started eating millet out of my hand! Hurrah! He will only take it if I hold it out about an inch away from the end of my fingers, but he's slowly getting closer! I'm thrilled :) ........

It will be interesting to see where this goes after a few more weeks. ..........;)

[Z28Taxman]

We are always interested to read updates and hear about progress!! :)

Sounds like Pez is learning to trust your fingers, which is a good thing! Keep working with him.

You say he used to fly. Did he get very far when he attempted flight? How many of his flight feathers are clipped? If he tries to fly and falls to the floor or other surface, he probably realizes that flight doesn't work right now. However, those flight feathers will grow back and you will see a change.

When Ditto's wings were clipped (very badly) he gave up trying to fly too. He'd occasionally hang on to a perch and flap like mad to keep in shape and test the wings. It was after a moult (6 months later) that he decided to test them again and scared the daylights out of me when he zoomed right by my head! I think he surprised himself too. :rofl:

[missdea]

Thanks everyone!

Pez used to diagonally descend around 1 to 1.5m in length when he was flying, but never horizontally, which I assume is because of the clipped wings. I’m not sure if they’re clipped well or badly – I can’t handle him to check! But they do look like they've suffered a pretty bad hairdressing job ;) He’s starting to moult now I think – either that or I really am having (blue) pillow fights that I don’t know about – so maybe he’ll attempt some more flying again soon.

Like Ditto, every day Pez exercises his wings by hanging on to his perch and flapping like mad – we joke that he has Tourette’s as he seems to shock himself when he gets lift off, and doesn’t look like he’s in control of his body at all! Very entertaining to watch.

He’s madly obsessed with my laptop at the moment, I sit right next to his house with it and I don’t know whether it’s the bright screen on the sound of the keys tapping, but he keeps testing it out with his beak and wants to make the leap over to the top of the screen of it but is too scared! So cute :)

[Z28Taxman]

Like Ditto, every day Pez exercises his wings by hanging on to his perch and flapping like mad – we joke that he has Tourette’s as he seems to shock himself when he gets lift off, and doesn’t look like he’s in control of his body at all! Very entertaining to watch.



When his wings were clipped he used to hang on to his ladder and flap away. His wings were clipped so badly that he got no lift at all and would fall like a rock :( . Once the flight feathers grew back he actually managed to life the ladder off the cage and scare himself half to death! He screamed at it for half an hour afterwards. :lol

[missdea]

So we're making progress... unfortunately in the wrong direction!

Pez is now quick to scamper over to eat out of my hand, but he's starting biting and he knows exactly what he's doing! If he dropped millet seeds on my hand, he'd delicately pick them off, knowing that that skin belonged to my body. Now, whenever he's finished eating, or when the millet runs out, he just goes for a massive chomp on whatever piece of my finger is closest! I don't know where this little mean bird has come from! I try not to react but it's impossible not to flinch, and if he bites hard enough, there's usually an 'ow!' that comes out before I can even think. Then, if the flinch is significant enough, he'll scamper away again. (Is it my imagination or is that smug look on his face real..?)

Any ideas on where I might have gone wrong or what I could do differently? He's breaking my heart... :(

[Pips mom]

(Is it my imagination or is that smug look on his face real..?)

Ohh, it's probably real! What you have to keep in mind and remember is that Pez is just a lovebird being a lovebird. Birds do not think or do things in the same manner as humans do. Birds act on instinct.........they are not domesticated pets. PLEASE do not let it hurt your feelings! I know, I have felt the same way before too, but over the years you begin to realize that bites are just part of the package deal that comes with having birds. Like with any human person, you have to learn to take the bad with the good and love them for who they are.......bites and all! Even after all this time with Pip (6 years together this past June) he'll still bite me good from time to time. Last time he decided to pierce my ear for me! ouch! he does well for the most part and bites are to a minimum, BUT, I know and realize that he's a lovie, and lovies tend to be bitey. It's just a fact that won't change. My sister has quaker parrots......aslo known to be bitey birds, and yes they are! she loves her birds, and they love her and they are amazing birds, but they can't really help it that their instinctive nature causes them to bite at times. It's not their fault........they're birds! not people! People tend to think of them in terms of being like them and being their companion, and expect them to behave and react to things like we do. You have to learn to enjoy them, love them for who they are......take a few bites for them.......it's not like they are fake or abusive like people are.........they are worth the bites! and in time, as they age, the biting thing will get better! it just takes time! Please just consider what I say from a person who had a VERY bitey lovie when I first got him! It's only when you can really love and appreciate your bird for who he is, that you can form that close bond that you want with him..........remember.........he'll be there and be your loyal buddy through good times and bad. For all the joy he'll bring to your life......try to stay tough for him and give him your patience and understanding. You haven't done anything wrong, and there may be things you can do differently, but as long as you're trying and want the best for Pez, then it will all turn out fine! trust me! this is just a phase, a set-back and nothing lasts forever! Time and patience! it pays off!

[michael]

Hard to say whats really going on in Pez's mind, but like Kim says, its nothing personal, just natural instinct for Pez to protect his food source. .. My suggestion, is to break the cycle by ending the routine before he finishes his millet.