Is she really a boy?

[luzcat]

Hi everyone, I'm somewhat confused about my youngest fischer's lovebird, she hatched on April 28th 2013 so she is almost 6 months old.
From an early age, since my little Khaleesi was a two month old baby she has been occasionally displaying the open wings position that females do when they want to mate. She has been doing that consistently throughout the months when I would sometimes give her head scratches or when she visited my other lovebirds cages.
I assumed she was female and was thrilled by it.
Lately I'm doubting my assumption, she has begun to hump a toy she likes to play with during out of cage time. I have noticed after she is done with the humping that there is a tiny drop left by her. You probably know what I mean, I'm pretty sure her vent is clean of poop. The first time I saw that I thought it was poop remains, but I have seen the tiny drop more often and it's clearly some type of fluid.
Does this mean my Khaleesi is a boy or can girl birds leave something behind, too?:confused:

[linda040899]

The easiest way to guess at gender of eye-ring species is to look at eye shape. I've found this to be fairly accurate, even though I would never guarantee gender based on it. Males tend to have round eyes, while females tend to have almond shaped ones. Look just at the eye, itself, not the eye-ring. I've had a few where it's hard to tell and those I've had to DNA sex.

As for the behavior, I've seen females that hump, and occasionally, a male that will spread his wings. I try to ignore guessing based on behavior. I've been fooled way too many times!

[luzcat]

Her eye shape looks almondy to me. I'll post pics later.
It's the tiny drop she left on the toy that concerns me. I thought only males left their "stuff" after mating.

[michael]

Her eye shape looks almondy to me. I'll post pics later.
It's the tiny drop she left on the toy that concerns me. I thought only males left their "stuff" after mating.

Have you actually witnessed Khaleesi leaving stuff in the spot where she humps, or is it a guess at what it is she's really leaving behind? Since your OP, i've asked a few breeders whether or not they've ever noticed evidence of semen being left behind by male lovebirds after humping various objects. All have said no. However, what they did find, was varying amounts of regurgitate, and in some cases, small amounts of urates from having been occupied in one place for a lengthily period of time. ... I'm guessing A female ......:confused:

[luzcat]

Hi Michael,
I have witnessed the whole procedure more than one time and she leaves the tiny drop each time. The way she does the deed is exactly the same as her father, Nico.
After reaching climax, her body lifts up and she stays in a sort of stupor/dazed state and I have her perch on my finger and when inspecting the toy I see the drop of bodily fluid clearly. I'm pretty sure about it. The toy is made of plastic, so it's easy to see and really inspect.

Here is her picture
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/aluz391/My%20birds/Fotos1820_zps8c833789.jpg (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/aluz391/media/My%20birds/Fotos1820_zps8c833789.jpg.html)

In this one Khaleesi is the one on the left. The other fellow is her brother Lotas from last year's clutch
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/aluz391/My%20birds/Fotos2058_zps57237b58.jpg (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/aluz391/media/My%20birds/Fotos2058_zps57237b58.jpg.html)

[michael]

Myself never having bred birds, but did keep a couple of "amorous" male lovebirds, I have no real explanation as to what exactly she's leaving behind. (maybe someone else can chime in?) Like you, i'd also wonder about gender, but also whether the fluid left behind is normal and/or perhaps just something unusual. .. At any rate, should either question pose too great a concern, you could always opt for a DNA test through Avianbiotech and/or inquire about the fluid during a "well bird" exam. .. Other than that, it sounds like Khaleesi is one very active lovebird who also enjoys showing off for the camera. .........:)

[luzcat]

Yes, my little Khaleesi is the most precious bird I ever had. I had the misfortune of having to take her out of the parents care before she turned 4 weeks old due to neglect and abuse.
I hand fed her and she has been my foster baby ever since, no other bird has ever been that bonded to me.
The lovebird flock is making her an outcast even now, she only has supervised out of cage time with her brother Lotas and sometimes my sweet budgie Leonel. But they always get upset by her constant need of attention from them, my Khaleesi preens them and they never preen her back.
I'm basically her momma and flock mate, she flies back to me the moment I say her name and loves playing with me. If she gets scared by something she comes to me to hide on my shoulder and under my chin.
It really hurts me to know she will never have the love of a bird, so I give her lots of TLC to make up for it. She spends a few good hours with me daily during out of cage time. And she has her eyes set on me while she is in the cage.

Even if she turns out a boy, she will always be my little baby girl. :cry:

[linda040899]

In the very first photo, the eye looks very round to me. Hard to tell in the second one, as the view is to the side. I think I would be tempted to do a DNA test through Avian Biotech and see what comes back. You have male, as well as female, behavior showing.

One thing I can tell you without any test at all, Khaleesi sure is pretty!

[luzcat]

Thanks, Linda!
I live in Portugal (Europe), it's not common to DNA sex birds in laboratories here.
And if there is a such a place in my country, it would most likely charge a lot of money.
I would rather have my flock of 12 (6 lovebirds, 6 budgies) well taken care of in terms of best diet, toys/accessories replacements when needed and have my emergency vet care funds untouched than having my lovebirds tested.

My little khaleesi turns 6 months today, reaching yet another important milestone for us! She is as happy as can be and so very playful and sweet. Her brother will spend some time with her today as well. Hopefully they will get along with no major issues.

I will post some better pictures of her and the rest of the flock real soon, on another thread. :)

[michael]

Thanks, Linda!
I live in Portugal (Europe), it's not common to DNA sex birds in laboratories here.
And if there is a such a place in my country, it would most likely charge a lot of money.
I would rather have my flock of 12 (6 lovebirds, 6 budgies) well taken care of in terms of best diet, toys/accessories replacements when needed and have my emergency vet care funds untouched than having my lovebirds tested.

If at any time you feel it would benefit to know Khaleesi's true gender, Avianbiotech does offer services worldwide. The average cost for DNA gender testing is between $19-$25 per kit. .. If on the other hand you don't feel its necessary, we totally understand.......;)

http://avianbiotech.co.uk/OrderKitUK.asp

[luzcat]

Thanks Michael, I'll keep that in mind for future reference.
By the way, I managed to take a picture of tiny drop of fluid in case anyone could be interested in seeing it.
I won't post it yet, because it might not be appropriate to do so, and I don't want to be breaking any rules here.

[linda040899]

I managed to take a picture of tiny drop of fluid in case anyone could be interested in seeing it. I won't post it yet, because it might not be appropriate to do so, and I don't want to be breaking any rules here.
It's not "x" rated so go ahead and share the photo. :) Being a forum dedicated to birds, the rules are a bit different, if you know what I mean! :) :)

[luzcat]

Okay, here it goes then. I always manage to divert her attention out of my hand/fingers when she gets in the mood, but this one time I let her have her way so I could take the picture.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5535/10540951766_8154f14220.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/65683778@N08/10540951766/)
Fotos 2195 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/65683778@N08/10540951766/) by aluz391 (http://www.flickr.com/people/65683778@N08/), on Flickr

You can clearly see the whitish tiny drop on my finger. It's the little spot more white in colour than my finger (and whole hand). It's really not poop, but something she releases after being "successful" at the deed.

[linda040899]

Interesting! My humping females generally use a piece of wadded up paper so I never get to see anything like this. My verdict is out right now, except to say that's she's a very pretty lovie! If she's 6 months old, she's just coming into sexual maturity.

[luzcat]

Yes, Khaleesi is exactly 6 months old today. If only lovebirds were as easy to read as budgies, I wouldn't be so confused! I thought only males in all bird species would be able to release something after mating and not females.
Maybe I should start calling her "ladyboy", but I doubt she'll respond to that! :lol She knows her name well and comes to me the moment I say Khaleesi.

[thebubbleking]

I have a couple males who swish,
I have never seen them leave behind a "sample" the only mess is from the alo feeding.
My guess would be it is urea that is on the inside of the vent and the pressure of the contractions or pushing pushes a little out.
Thats just a guess but of all my males before or now i have never had any leave a sample.
Includeing my cockatiels and conures and them being bigger birds they would leave a bigger sample.

[luzcat]

I can really see it's not poop/urate remains, it's a different type of fluid that I have never seen before in a bird. Then again, I never had a bird so bonded to me as Khaleesi, so this is a first for me.
I talked to a member over at Talk Budgies forum and he has a bonded male budgie who does the same as my Khaleesi and releases the fluid after finishing the "deed".
I'm almost sure Khaleesi is a male, in a way I don't have to worry about unwanted eggs and no matter what, I will continue to view her as my beautiful little girl. I don't think she will mind. >o

[linda040899]

Male or female, they are all special. Not having to worry about unwanted eggs is definitely a plus. :) Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm constantly learning and this is new for me.

[luzcat]

Male or female, they are all special. Not having to worry about unwanted eggs is definitely a plus. :) Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm constantly learning and this is new for me.

You're welcome! Hopefully this thread will shed some light on the subject or maybe help people who have seen that same thing happening with their birds.

As soon as I have more time on my hands, I will make a thread with pictures of the whole lovebird flock and maybe even a couple of videos of cheeky Khaleesi playing with her toys. :D

[linda040899]

As soon as I have more time on my hands, I will make a thread with pictures of the whole lovebird flock and maybe even a couple of videos of cheeky Khaleesi playing with her toys.
Please do! :)