Are these normal baby Lovebird behavior?

[Mohdan99]

Hello everyone

I got myself a baby Lovebird which looked healthy and acts healthy but I faced 3 things which hopefully are normal baby Lovebird behavior. But just to be safe I'm gonna discuss them here to see if they are normal or not.

Since I got the 3 week old baby (age given by the owner) I noticed that even if he's hungry he doesn't open his mouth wide to eat he just look at me and that's it.

The second thing is when his crop is full it takes a really long time for the crop to decrease in size. I researched that lovebirds crop drain/gets smaller after 4 hours or a little bit more. My bird crop stays the same just like 10 to 20% smaller and remains 80% full. He poops fine and the poop indicates that he is fine. I never feed him the formula too hot or too cold and the room he's in is not cold.


Third is that his eyes are closed 90% of the day. He can open them and they seem fine and nothing wrong with them with close inspection. I understand lovebirds need 10 to 12 hours of sleep. Well, mine have no problem to sleep beyond that. If he cleans his feathers he does it while his eyes are closed he walks with his eyes closed also.

I'm not new to hand raising birds I have raised a dozen of cockatiels and ringneck parrots. My baby is now 4 weeks old and I have 2 pictures attached. I wish everything I mentioned is not a big deal. My country have vets but they are all not experienced with birds. I created an account just to this discuss for the sake of my bird. Thanks to whoever is welling to help and inform me here.

Edit: Although I have raised birds before, this is my first lovebird.

https://ibb.co/TcVDGpm
https://ibb.co/F8M56YJ

[linda040899]

I looked at the pictures you attached and I would also have reason to be concerned! His age seems to be about right, based on length of his tailfeathering. What concerns me is the lethargy you are describing. In my own experience, formula temperature should be between 106F and 108F. Mom's body temperature is 106F so while recommended formula temperature by the manufacturer is 104F, it's really too cool. If formula is too cool, it takes longer to be digested.

Which hand feeding formula are you currently using? The most available one is usually Kaytee Exact and I've had major problems with it in the past. Kaytee's production process seems to make the formula harder to digest and I've found that fluid will be absorbed, leaving the solids in the formula hard and compact in the crop. The term for this is failure to thrive and the photos you attached indicate that this could be the problem. Keep in mind that I'm not a vet, just a breeder with many years of experience.

Hope this gives you some insight.

[Mohdan99]

I looked at the pictures you attached and I would also have reason to be concerned! His age seems to be about right, based on length of his tailfeathering. What concerns me is the lethargy you are describing. In my own experience, formula temperature should be between 106F and 108F. Mom's body temperature is 106F so while recommended formula temperature by the manufacturer is 104F, it's really too cool. If formula is too cool, it takes longer to be digested.

Which hand feeding formula are you currently using? The most available one is usually Kaytee Exact and I've had major problems with it in the past. Kaytee's production process seems to make the formula harder to digest and I've found that fluid will be absorbed, leaving the solids in the formula hard and compact in the crop. The term for this is failure to thrive and the photos you attached indicate that this could be the problem. Keep in mind that I'm not a vet, just a breeder with many years of experience.

Hope this gives you some insight.

Thank You soo much for your reply.

I have two products of baby formula but none of them are the one you mentioned. One is a KIKI product and the second is Benelux baby mix. surprisingly they doesn't say anything about about the temp. but ill make sure to warm the food to 106F next feeding. If you know the products I mentioned, do you prefer one from the other? and does that explain why he is very sleepy (because of the slow digestion?

Sorry for all those questions and annoyances. I surely will update on this situation.

[linda040899]

I don't have any problems offering whatever help I can be with your baby lovebird!! This is why our forums exist. From my experience, I know that parrot care and parrot product availability are very different, depending on location. I'm located in the United States but I'm familiar with other countries. We have a number of international members here.

I looked at the ingredient labels for the 2 hand feeding formulas you listed and I like the KIKI product better than the Benelux. What I compared is crude protein, fat content and fiber. Lovebirds are native to Africa and African species have a higher fat requirement in their diets. Zupeem Embrace (the product I use) contains 22% crude protein and has a fat content of 9%. The closer to that of your 2 brands is KIKI. When you mix the formula, it should be the consistency of thick chocolate pudding and will go through a syringe tip fairly easily.

At age 4 weeks, baby lovebirds normally need 5-6 ml of formula/feeding and I feed 4-6 times/day. The crop does not have to be completely empty as with Cockatiels but I don't feed too much, as it takes longer to digest. After each feeding, I offer some warm water (same temperature as the formula) to wash the formula out of the mouth. Formula contains yeast and if left in the mouth, it can cause a yeast infection called Candide. 8 ml is the maximum I ever feed a baby lovebird. You don't want to overstretch the crop, as it will make weaning harder at the end. I feed the baby when it's hungry rather than at specific times during the day.

[Mohdan99]

I don't have any problems offering whatever help I can be with your baby lovebird!! This is why our forums exist. From my experience, I know that parrot care and parrot product availability are very different, depending on location. I'm located in the United States but I'm familiar with other countries. We have a number of international members here.

I looked at the ingredient labels for the 2 hand feeding formulas you listed and I like the KIKI product better than the Benelux. What I compared is crude protein, fat content and fiber. Lovebirds are native to Africa and African species have a higher fat requirement in their diets. Zupeem Embrace (the product I use) contains 22% crude protein and has a fat content of 9%. The closer to that of your 2 brands is KIKI. When you mix the formula, it should be the consistency of thick chocolate pudding and will go through a syringe tip fairly easily.

At age 4 weeks, baby lovebirds normally need 5-6 ml of formula/feeding and I feed 4-6 times/day. The crop does not have to be completely empty as with Cockatiels but I don't feed too much, as it takes longer to digest. After each feeding, I offer some warm water (same temperature as the formula) to wash the formula out of the mouth. Formula contains yeast and if left in the mouth, it can cause a yeast infection called Candide. 8 ml is the maximum I ever feed a baby lovebird. You don't want to overstretch the crop, as it will make weaning harder at the end. I feed the baby when it's hungry rather than at specific times during the day.

Thanks for your suggestion. However the reason I'm histant to feed him 5 or 6 times is because I'm afraid of overfeeding since his crop digest slowly. for example lets say I waited 4 hours for next feeding, if I filled the syringe 6ml while his crop is still big, I get scared that it will overstretched. and my bird doesn't give me the indication that he's hungry but refuses the syringe. I will wait till his crop gets small and will use the KIKI formula at 106F and I'll see if the crop digest faster.

Edit: I just examined him and his crop digest better than yesterday but, he is still 90% asleep or more through the day which makes me worry, I have never seen him wake up for more than 30 minutes since the problem begun, the first 3 days he was active but not anymore.

[linda040899]

I understand why spread his feedings out a bit and your reasoning is very valid. You may want to let his crop go almost empty and then try feeding him. Can you get some Lactobacillus powder that you can add to his formula? Lactobacillus is good digestive bacteria that will help digest his food better. What was the owner feeding the baby when you got him?

[Mohdan99]

I understand why spread his feedings out a bit and your reasoning is very valid. You may want to let his crop go almost empty and then try feeding him. Can you get some Lactobacillus powder that you can add to his formula? Lactobacillus is good digestive bacteria that will help digest his food better. What was the owner feeding the baby when you got him?



He fed him the second forumla Benelux.

I'll try to search about the digestive bacteria and purchase it if found available. If he continues the sleeping 99% all day thing ill search the country for a good vet that knows about birds to examine him. hopefully I can find one.

[linda040899]

I would use the KIKI formula, as I think it's more inline with his nutritional needs. Are you keeping track of his weight?

[Mohdan99]

I would use the KIKI formula, as I think it's more inline with his nutritional needs. Are you keeping track of his weight?

Unfortunately, no. I lost my bird scale but by observing and handling him he seems okay not too thin. The thing worries me the most is his whole day sleep. is it normal Ms Linda?

I thought maybe he is a bit older than I think and I offered him some food like dates and corn and bananas but he doesn't seem intrested because he just closes his eyes and sleep :very_sad:

its 10pm in my country and tommorow morning ill buy a new scale and monitor his weight

[linda040899]

The sleepiness bothers me a lot, too. No. It's not normal and I think I would start looking around for a vet who is very familiar with birds. You haven't mentioned any behavior that might indicate an infection and I can't think of any where sleepiness would be a visible symptom.

[Mohdan99]

The sleepiness bothers me a lot, too. No. It's not normal and I think I would start looking around for a vet who is very familiar with birds. You haven't mentioned any behavior that might indicate an infection and I can't think of any where sleepiness would be a visible symptom.

Update:

I finally found a vet which is familiar with birds. He said that his sleepiness is sort of a weakness. He gave me a medicine to mix with his formula for 14 days. Ill make sure to update in the future.

[linda040899]

Update:

I finally found a vet which is familiar with birds. He said that his sleepiness is sort of a weakness. He gave me a medicine to mix with his formula for 14 days. Ill make sure to update in the future.
Please do update us on your lovebird! What did the vet give you to add to the formula?

[Mohdan99]

Please do update us on your lovebird! What did the vet give you to add to the formula?

I will update for sure.

He started eating more now from the syringe. Still sleepy because it's still his first day with his medicine. I can't describe the medicine because it's in a foreign language. I will translate it with my phone later. The doctor said it's like a slight boost to his health to steer him away from his weakness/tiredness and he adviced me carefully about the dosage.

[linda040899]

This is a good thing and I'm glad to hear it!! Your lovebird is very lucky that you care so much about his well being! :)

[Mohdan99]

This is a good thing and I'm glad to hear it!! Your lovebird is very lucky that you care so much about his well being! :)

Good news!

He always accepts 6ml now and after that he eats some millets and budgie seeds!

He is not interested in his small water bowl or any fruit/vegetables yet but I won't stop trying after he gets older.

However, I won't judge on his sleepiness but it improved for sure. I'm still waiting until he completes the medicine schedule.

Thank you Linda for taking your time and advising me you helped me lots!

[linda040899]

What medication did your vet prescribe? I'm glad to hear that his appetite has picked up and that he's eating more! That should help increase his energy level. I think formula temperature is also helping, as 106F is normal feeding temp for babies. If he wants more than 6 ml and he's digesting his food quicker, you can give him up to 8 ml each feeding but keep an eye on how quickly the food goes through his crop.

In the wild, lovebird eat seeds and veggies. Some will eat fruit but they are not really fruit eaters.

[Mohdan99]

What medication did your vet prescribe? I'm glad to hear that his appetite has picked up and that he's eating more! That should help increase his energy level. I think formula temperature is also helping, as 106F is normal feeding temp for babies. If he wants more than 6 ml and he's digesting his food quicker, you can give him up to 8 ml each feeding but keep an eye on how quickly the food goes through his crop.

In the wild, lovebird eat seeds and veggies. Some will eat fruit but they are not really fruit eaters.

The medicine is Omni-vet oropharma

He digests the food faster now but for some reason he doesn't want more than 6ml or 5ml he backs off and resists.

[linda040899]

The medication is a mixture of vitamins, minerals and trace elements that may be missing from the formula. Not all formulas are created equal. If it seems to be helping, keep using as directed. More with baby lovebirds than I've found with other species, as they get older, they pay attention to the food until they feel they are full. After that, they seem to focus on what's around them. When I had a group of babies that age, I would put them all in a container and let them compete for the food that was in the syringe. It got a bit messy but they seemed to get more food in them....and on them! When they were done eating, they cleaned the formula off their feathering and were contented little ones!

With eating less, he may want to eat more often, which is fine. It's good that the food goes through his crop faster now. Monitor his weight to make sure he isn't losing weight. The most accurate weight is first thing in the morning before you feed. Around age 5.5 - 6 weeks, babies do drop baby weight so they are light enough to fly. That loss, however, should not be more than 10% before they begin to maintain their normal weight, which is between 45 - 55 grams.

[Mohdan99]

The medication is a mixture of vitamins, minerals and trace elements that may be missing from the formula. Not all formulas are created equal. If it seems to be helping, keep using as directed. More with baby lovebirds than I've found with other species, as they get older, they pay attention to the food until they feel they are full. After that, they seem to focus on what's around them. When I had a group of babies that age, I would put them all in a container and let them compete for the food that was in the syringe. It got a bit messy but they seemed to get more food in them....and on them! When they were done eating, they cleaned the formula off their feathering and were contented little ones!

With eating less, he may want to eat more often, which is fine. It's good that the food goes through his crop faster now. Monitor his weight to make sure he isn't losing weight. The most accurate weight is first thing in the morning before you feed. Around age 5.5 - 6 weeks, babies do drop baby weight so they are light enough to fly. That loss, however, should not be more than 10% before they begin to maintain their normal weight, which is between 45 - 55 grams.

The Bird was amazing for a couple of days...

But today morning at 8am (its 11am in my country) he vomited the formula and after an hour or more he gave me the food cry so I prepared some for him. He refused the formula even thought he is hungry and his crop is small. :( He ate a couple of millets.
Later on I noticed that he drank water for the first time just to vomit seconds later. His droppings turn from formula color to light green and they are a bit watery.

The bird acts okay. he plays and cleans himself often. but I don't understand what's wrong with him. :(

Sorry for suddenly giving this kind of news. all my experience with handfeeding and I haven't experienced something like this

[linda040899]

Just saw your post this morning and now you have given me something to which I can relate. Your baby has a crop infection and will need antibiotic. A vitamin supplement will not do the trick. My own avian vet will usually prescribe Baytril for bacterial infection and Nystatin to cover a possible fungal infection. If left untreated, crop infections can be fatal. Please contact your vet ASAP.

[Mohdan99]

Just saw your post this morning and now you have given me something to which I can relate. Your baby has a crop infection and will need antibiotic. A vitamin supplement will not do the trick. My own avian vet will usually prescribe Baytril for bacterial infection and Nystatin to cover a possible fungal infection. If left untreated, crop infections can be fatal. Please contact your vet ASAP.



oh no... the problem is vets are closed today...
should I buy Baytril and use it at least now?

I don't know what to do

[linda040899]

Baytril is normally compounded for birds, as it's normal use is for cattle so I would not buy it. Does your vet have a number to call in case of an emergency or is there an emergency clinic near you that handles birds? Next suggestion is to try a drop of Pepto Bismol in 5 ml of water to see if you can "sweeten" the crop temporarily.

All you can do is keep feeding him but give him small amounts of formula every 1 - 2 hours. Years ago, I had a baby lovebird that was very prone to crop infections and frequent, small feedings helped me keep her alive until I could get to see my vet the next day.

[Mohdan99]

Baytril is normally compounded for birds, as it's normal use is for cattle so I would not buy it. Does your vet have a number to call in case of an emergency or is there an emergency clinic near you that handles birds? Next suggestion is to try a drop of Pepto Bismol in 5 ml of water to see if you can "sweeten" the crop temporarily.

All you can do is keep feeding him but give him small amounts of formula every 1 - 2 hours. Years ago, I had a baby lovebird that was very prone to crop infections and frequent, small feedings helped me keep her alive until I could get to see my vet the next day.

Yes that's the thing I'm trying to do right now I'm feeding him 3ml to at least not let his crop get empty completely. Tomorrow morning I'll take him to to vet as soon as possible.

He is active and alert now. his droppings are dark green with white urates and clear urine. yesterday and before the feces were formula color.

he did not vomit the last two feedings which were in very small amounts (3ml or less) I hope I can keep him in good enough condition till tomorrow...

[linda040899]

Yes that's the thing I'm trying to do right now I'm feeding him 3ml to at least not let his crop get empty completely. Tomorrow morning I'll take him to to vet as soon as possible.

He is active and alert now. his droppings are dark green with white urates and clear urine. yesterday and before the feces were formula color.

he did not vomit the last two feedings which were in very small amounts (3ml or less) I hope I can keep him in good enough condition till tomorrow...
You actually want his crop to at least almost empty so it will clean itself out. You can try adding a drop or two of organic apple cider vinegar (regular apple cider vinegar if organic is not available) to the formula. Apple cider vinegar has antibacterial properties and it will not hurt him. The color of his droppings is always a good indicator. The color change indicates that he's getting some nourishment.

One note about antibiotics. My avian vet uses compounded Baytril but it cannot be used on babies under 6 weeks of age or it can stunt the development of their bones. Your baby may have just a mild infection, which would be a good thing if there's a medical problem present. Here's hoping everything will be OK. Keep up the good work!

[Mohdan99]

You actually want his crop to at least almost empty so it will clean itself out. You can try adding a drop or two of organic apple cider vinegar (regular apple cider vinegar if organic is not available) to the formula. Apple cider vinegar has antibacterial properties and it will not hurt him. The color of his droppings is always a good indicator. The color change indicates that he's getting some nourishment.

One note about antibiotics. My avian vet uses compounded Baytril but it cannot be used on babies under 6 weeks of age or it can stunt the development of their bones. Your baby may have just a mild infection, which would be a good thing if there's a medical problem present. Here's hoping everything will be OK. Keep up the good work!


Thank you Linda

One question, how much exactly is one drop or two of organic apple cider vinegar? half a ml or one milliliter? they sell organic ones near my area I'll go take a look.

Update: Figured out it's 0.05ml. Sorry for the question hah

[linda040899]

Thank you Linda

One question, how much exactly is one drop or two of organic apple cider vinegar? half a ml or one milliliter? they sell organic ones near my area I'll go take a look.

Update: Figured out it's 0.05ml. Sorry for the question hah

Exactly! This lovebird sure is lucky to be living with you and having you to take care of him! :)

[linda040899]

How is your baby doing?

[Mohdan99]

How is your baby doing?

Hello!

Sorry for not updating for a while. After searching left and right and every corner I've found a guy who is very very experienced with birds and very kind (He is also a volunteer in animal rescue) He took the baby for a few days and sent me a video 3 days ago to show me the baby's health which was very positive.

So yeah the story finished with the baby living :) I have attached a screenshot of the video he sent
https://ibb.co/1Tkrg65

[linda040899]

Fantastic!! I'm so happy that you found someone who is experienced with baby lovebirds! Did you find out what the problem was?

[Mohdan99]

Fantastic!! I'm so happy that you found someone who is experienced with baby lovebirds! Did you find out what the problem was?

Yes, It was a crop infection apparently.

[linda040899]

Yes, It was a crop infection apparently.
I'm glad the breeder figured out what was wrong and treated the problem. Your baby had all the symptoms, at least as I've experienced crop infections. Is he weaned and do you have him back again?

[Mohdan99]

I'm glad the breeder figured out what was wrong and treated the problem. Your baby had all the symptoms, at least as I've experienced crop infections. Is he weaned and do you have him back again?

Yes he is fully weaned now, he is in a different cage which is a bit bigger and eats seeds from my hand when I offer him some, he still refuses fruits like bananas but I'm sure it will work out overtime, thanks Linda.

[linda040899]

Glad to hear that he is fully weaned!!! Some lovebirds will eat fruit but most will not. How about dried bananas or dried fruit? Mine love dried pineapple and papaya!