Botan chan companion issue

[OkiF]

I start a new thread here, to keep the emergency section for emergencies.

So with Botan chan recovering (it is not magic yet, but clearly going in the good direction), the question of a new partner arises.

At some point, we (mainly me) were considering to get a hand raised baby bird, and see if it turns out to be a female, finding males for both of them and ending up with two couples in the cage. After a quick browsing on internet, this option went to the bin as it seems that while some people report success, it is a Russian roulette to keep two pairs in the same cage.

So now, the option is trying to find a baby bird that could be DNA sexed (is it possible to DNA check a baby bird?), but as Linda mentioned in the original thread in the emergency section, the issue of a tame male would be that he will not satisfy Botan's need (precision: we are not aiming to let them reproduce as we don't have space, time and skills to take care of offsprings).

The other option is to get an already adult male (so far the only option we found here are "wild" ones and the shop said they were about 1 year old (not sure if they are still there though), which would make the candidate 6 months older than Botan. I understand the concern of the disease risk by bringing Botan to the shop, but if we "impose" her a companion, isn't there a risk that she will not like him and we will end up in a troublesome situation? Our initial plan (admitting recovery keeps going well, etc...), was to drop by the vet directly on the way home from the shop (avoiding the potential stress to catch the new wild boy afterward to bring him to check). Could this help with/reduce the quarantine?

Just for information, the cage we have at the moment is this one: https://prevuepet.com/product/815/flight-bird-cage--white-f041. Once out of her "aquarium", I plan to make a wooden floor on the top part of the cage so Botan can get used to climb etc... without the risks of a big fall. Then slowly move the floor down step by step as she gets used back to her cage. Ideally, this could be done in parallel to the quarantine of a new comer so the removal of the temporary floor could be done when introducing the new bird so it might soften territory issues...

Any comment or idea?

[linda040899]

Based on my own experience, an older male would be a better candidate for a mate for Botan chan than a younger one. A mature male, even 1-2 yrs older, would be fine. You could do a vet visit on the way home from picking up the new bird and the vet could most likely pick up any health problems that exist at that time. There are things that might not show up because there are no symptoms so that would not change quarantine time. A perfect example of this is what happened when I adopted a Green Cheek Conure named Zoey about 5 yrs ago. Zoey seemed perfectly healthy for the first 6 months and all was good. Then, she began having episodes of lethargy and not eating. She lost weight so I made a vet appt. She had a bacterial infection which was treated and she was fine for another month or so when another episode occurred. This time no infection so my vet did a barium test to see how long it took for the liquid to get from mouth to cloaca. That's when Zoey was diagnosed with PDD, Macaw Wasting Disease. To make a long story short, there is no cure for PDD and I was lucky that Zoey did not infect any of my other parrots. Zoey lived another 4 months and then succumbed to the disease. Heartbreaking but I learned that quarantine is not foolproof.

I don't think I would put Botan chan and a mate in a flight cage with another pair. Depending on her recovery, she might have mobility problems and lovebirds can be aggressive with each other. I've had some strange pairings in my breeding career and I'm amazed at how rule of thumb does not always apply. Right now, I have a lovebird trio (2 males, one female) and they get along great. On the internet, you normally find that you need even number of lovebirds, odd number of pairs, for a peaceful flight cage. I've found there can be exceptions.

I think the plan for the cage you have is a good one, depending on Botan chan's recovery. You can do the cage plan and quarantine simultaneously and I like the idea. Lovebirds are very social so you may find getting a male companion for her might go easier than you expect.

Hope this is helpful.

[OkiF]

Some little news about Botan chan. Her feet are still the same, not better, not worse, with the rear fingers of the right foot paralysed, but the rest seems not too bad although weak. The vet was very happy to see her progresses last week and that she could stand on perches, etc... (and that she went back to 45 grams). Based on her suggestion, we started reintroducing Botan to the top floor of her big cage for some supervised sessions. At the beginning she was very exciting and I am not sure it was pure happiness, it felt rather quite some stress. In the big cage we see more her handicap as she has a bit more trouble to climb around and use the perches (some platforms and stairs are on the way from a shop in Germany that has many goods for handicapped birds). Adding a big bath (1 cm deep plate filled with water) improved a lot the fun of the big cage, but she is still completely against going back to the safety of her small "aquarium". We will just keep going on for the bath/fun session every day in the big cage top floor. Yesterday she "escaped" for a flight in the living room and she went to most of her old favourite spots, but there too I think she realised it is a bit more difficult than before and finally she went back to my wife's head, then arm then my shoulder (with some little challenges not to slip). Ideally, we would like to wait for her wings feather to grow back fully before letting her fly again (now she has 3 cut on each side, but not exactly the same feathers).

For her partner, the vet recommended against a wild adult as she was afraid he would be too violent for her handicap. She recommended a baby so the baby can grow together with her handicap and adapt. With the issue that it might end up being a female or a male but they don't go along. In this case we will end up with two cages. Now the issue we have is that we struggle to find a "normal colored" personatus (blue like botan or yellow with red head seem more common). I just found the reason on a website today: in Japan they did not make clear distinction between fisheri and personatus (actually the common names refer to the color morphs) and mainly we find hybrids of fisheri and personatus. It is not a big drama as we don't plan to breed, but it is a bit strange (although it explains a lot, including why the adult male "personatus" had such a reddish tone on the head). So now probably we will go for a "fisheri" chick, hoping for a high percentage of personatus blood and mainly that they go along well and if not we will have a second chance to search for a "personatus". Another option would be to go again for a roseicollis as my understanding was that these are the most "gentle" lovebirds (although I might be biased by the experience of inkochan...). Then for a handicapped personatus, maybe a gentle roseicollis may be better?

In case we end up with two birds in two cages, would they still be able to keep each other "entertained" while we are at work, or would have then two birds suffering of solitude? (For me I am a bit dreaming of building an exterior aviary to have a larger group of birds, but this dream is not (yet?) shared by my wife...

[linda040899]

Thanks for the update on Botan chan! While it's not what you would want, at least there is no decline. If this is as good as it gets, she will adapt. I agree that she needs to be fully flighted so she can use her wings to compensate for her handicap.

Your comment on the lack of distinction between personata and fischeri seems to be the case in many places. They really ARE 2 separate and distinct species. They have different personalities and hybrid offspring can have behavioral problems because of conflicting inherited genes. Unfortunately, eye-ring hybrids are capable of breeding and producing more hybrids. Reversing the hybridization is almost impossible and would take many, many selective breedings to accomplish. With that said, a potential mate for Botan chan has to be a male. The chances of finding a female that will get along with another female are slim to almost none. My own preference would be a tame male, although you have to think about Botan. Even though she is a female, her desire to reproduce most likely is not handicapped...... I think I would look around with an open mind and see what you find. You can afford to take you time so look around and see if someone would be willing to sell you a known male and be willing to take the bird back if it does not work out. Since you are not going to breed, you can take any species as a companion. I usually don't suggest this, but, perhaps a Peachfaced/Eye-ring hybrid would be a great choice. They are normally fairly docile and are incapable of breeding because they are sterile. They are easy to recognize because they have orange beaks. This would also not remove a lovebird from the breeding pool.

Even in 2 separate cages during the day, they would still have the company of another lovebird. You could let them out when they can be supervised and, over time, they may form a strong bond. It's all speculation.

Hope this is helpful.....