can someone explain this?

[Ziggy]

Hello everybody!

My lovebird, Thanasis is about 1.5 years old. He used to live at my parents' home but I thought they didn't give him much attention so he moved in with me about three months ago. I have all the usual problems with taming/biting hard but I think we are slowly making progress. One thing I noticed some days ago is that sometimes while he is sitting somewhere he moves his lower beak left-right making a scratching sound. It sounds like cracking something and I think it's quite strange. Has anyone had this before?

Another thing is feather plucking. Everything was ok but about a month ago he suddenly started taking feathers out, both small but also some flight feathers. The vet gave me "anti-stress" medication which was just a vitamin solution. Giving him this with his water for 10 days solved the problem but about a week ago he started again. I gave him his vitamins again and now it gradually stops. Can I do something to prevent him from doing this? He seems to be scratching all the time. I rotate his toys (which he loves to destroy), I lure him into bathing (but he rarely accepts) and lately I have even put the controversial mirror to keep him company because I am absent for many hours (but he seems to mostly ignore his new friend). Any thoughts on this?

[Mummieeva]

Welcome. I cna try and help. Does the noise you hear kinda sound like teeth grinding? If so that is beak grinding and it is a good sign. Means he is happy and content. My birds do this when they are happy. As for the feather plucking is he getting bald spots? Or just feathers out? He could be molting if it is not bald spots. Try turning the tv or radio on when you are gone from house. Were is his cage in your home? There are many reasons they pluck from boredom to even illness. Is he eating and drinking normaly?


Steph

[Ziggy]

Well I guess it is beak grinding as you say. As for the feathers, no. I don't see any bald spots. He uses his beak to "scratch" below his neck and mainly under the wings and with his nails he scratches just above the eyes. The vet took a look at him and he says that it's nothing to worry about. It is strange though because last night I saw him scratching his head on the end of the perch. The cage is quite high when I am away in a spot that he gets lots of sun (but not direct) and he can clearly see outside. When I return and let him out I move it to the floor or hide it. He is eating and drinking is normal but he is giving me quite a hard time changing his diet. He is used to eating sunflower seeds and I am at the moment trying to mix different types of food in his feeders to give variety but I think that with time he will get used to it. I am thinking of getting soon a second lovebird to keep him real company because I believe that the mirror doesn't cut it.

[bellarains]

Hi Ziggy,

Yep, the noise you are hearing Thanasis making is beak grinding. Lovies do this when they are comfortable, happy and content. They usually do this just before sleeping, or while basking in sunlight, or sitting on your shoulder.

One question on the feather loss. Are you also seeing down feather loss along with the flights/tailfeathers? If so, Thanasis is most likely molting. If you do see any bald patches, or see him picking to the point of irritation you will need to have your vet do some testing to rule out any health issues.

Vitamins in the water is not such a good idea unless you are there to change it out often. Vitamins in water can start to grow bacteria after a short time, so if your vet thinks Thanasis really needs them, ask him about a powder form to put in his food instead.

Here is a link for birdie bread. It is a good way to include some veggies and fruits in Thanasis diet. It is easy to make, and you can cut it into to cubes, freeze and pop into the microwave for about 20-30 secs to unthaw for meals.

http://www.lovebirdsplus.com/community/showthread.php?t=190

As for getting Thanasis a friend, it is not a given that he will readily accept a new bird, or maybe not at all. If you get a female, you may have eggs/babies in the future. If this is not something you want, you will need to look for a DNA sexed male. You will need a minimum 30 day quarantine after a well bird check up, and introductions will need to be made very slowly. This can take 6 months to a year, but it can also happen quickly. Slow introduction though is key to acceptance. If he never wants a new bird in his cage, another bird in a seperate cage will still be company for him. Just a couple of things to think about.

I hope you Thanasis continues to show progress with taming. Everyday interaction is key, so keep it up :)

[Janie]

I just wanted to say hi and welcome. I agree with all the above. Sounds to me like you're doing a very good job with him and he is making progress! :D I adopted an older lovie, 100% seed eater, and did eventually get him to try birdie bread (sometimes) and raw broccoli, all the time! It took three weeks to get him to try the first nibble of broccoli and I ate a lot of it, trying to tempt him.....it worked! :D

My Oliver does have one tiny spot that he picks and my avian vet did give me vitamins to add to the water but made it very clear that I'd need to change that water several times a day. I tried it and in my case, or Oliver's, I should say, the vitamins didn't help so I stopped them. Oliver's picking is worse when he's molting and it does sound like your lovie is molting. If your lovie will bathe, that will help with the molting.

BTW, he's very pretty! Looks just like my Oliver! :)

[bellarains]

Well....

One more thing. Are you sure Thanasis is a male? If not, you will definitely want to have him? DNA sexed before adding another lovie. AT 1.5 years of age even if s/he has not laid eggs it is not an indication of male gender. We've had some lovies go 3 years or longer without laying an egg.

Let us know how it's going.

[Ziggy]

Thank you so much for the helpful replies!

@ bellarains: the thing that got me worried about this feather loss is that along with the small greyish feathers under his wings he lost three flight feathers in four days and I did not know if that was normal. He was right in front of me when he pulled the third one out and got me upset. Still, the area under his wings looks a little messy. Not bald but messy. I am going to stop the vitamins today. As I see there is no big reason for that. Thank you for the recipe! I am definately going to test it. Who knows? Maybe I'll keep some for myself!

@ Janie: I am trying to get him to bathe but he is not used to it yet. Sometimes when he sees a glass of water he dives right in but that's quite rare. Once I took him in the bathroom while I was having an extra-steaming bath and after I finished he went crazy! He even put his head under the running water! Since then, he hasn't bathed in the tub. Maybe something scares him there, I don't know but still when he hears running water he seems like he wants to bathe. I am also trying misting or letting a few drops on him for persuasion.

[bellarains]

Ziggy,

Try a little warm water mist with a little pure aloe mixed in. This will help soothe his irritated skin and help soften the keratin shaft on the new feathers coming in. If you use a spray bottle, let it mist down on him like rain, don't spray it directly at him. You can also use a washcloth, or your fingers to do this. Whatever doesn't freak him out is what you are looking for, so it may take a little trial and error :rolleyes:

If Thanasis likes running water, try the kitchen sink. All lovies have a different preference as to how high of water pressure they like, so let Thanasis pick how he likes it. Turn the water on, cup your hands under the running water and hold your arms like a runway for him to walk down to the water. He may not like it, or it may take a few tries, but alot of lovies like to bathe this way. It is also a great bonding experience :)

[Janie]

Ziggy, I didn't bother to mention that my older bird would NOT bathe except to stick his head in his water dish. The mister scared him to death so, since he is a non biter, *I* bathe him. About twice a week when he's molting or any time that I see him try to bathe in his water dish. That's my cue that he wants a bath. Make no mistake, he doesn't love the idea of me bathing him in the kitchen sink or holding him under the faucet (never his head, only below the neck) but there is no doubt that he feels so much better after a bath. I am not suggesting that you go to this extreme, especially since you are still building trust with your bird. I waited for several months, after I was sure we had a strong bond, before I bathed him. Since your bird has bathed a couple of times in the past, he'll probably do it again, as he becomes more and more comfortable in your home. If he'll allow you to mist him, as Lori suggested, that will make him feel much better. I do think that the feather loss you are describing IS molting. My three have/are going through molts right now. Feathers everywhere! :D

[butterfly1061]

Hi Ziggy,

Welcome to the board! I have three lovies and they all bathe in my hands in the kitchen sink. I have a filter on the faucet and when it's on there is a spray of water that comes out. I cup both of my hands together and they walk down my arm to "test" the water. It takes a few times of "testing" the water before they start actually bathing. In fact, my Daisy & Piper stand right underneath the spray to bathe - it's too cute! Coaxing them to bathe anywhere can take time & lots of patience on a lovie mom or dad. My Molly took a few months to coax into bathing, but now he loves it. Right now all three of mine are molting, so baths come just about everyday. Good Luck! and remember to let Thanasis take his/her time. :D

[Mummieeva]

I will say this I misted mine lightly and then 2 seconds later they dove into water bowl..lol.


Steph

[Paulette]

Hi Ziggy.....that reminds me of the little bag character/cartoon.....ah, ziggy must be from the 70's if I recall correctly....I still have the little bean bag guy somewhere in the attic....from my teen years. Thanasis sure is a cutie. I give my birds a bath bowl in their cages or just spritz them.....some love a bath and others don't.....be careful of a glass of water however, if they fall in they can't get out and would drowned. I use shallow bowls either inside or on top of the cage....I've actually been spritzing mine because I have some babies and am worried about putting a bowl in the cage....but I have to add water somehow for my eggs to have enough moisture to hatch and I just use room temp water. The scratching and preening is normal, my lovies and tiels do it daily. When feathers are growing back in they have a keratin sheath on them and are very stiff....birds have to chew the keratin off of the feather in order for it to fluff out....baths also help soften it. I look forward to hearing more about you and Thanasis.

[Ziggy]

Well the truth is that I don't know for sure the gender so for now I assume he is a "he". I checked again last night for patches or something else. Nothing found BUT while he was playing around the house he sat on my knee and after a while started his scratching again. I was wearing dark clothes and so I noticed those tiny white chips (like dandruff or smth) around where he sat. I am definately calling the vet today to get his advice. As for the bathing, he did a good one yesterday. When he flies around he is always supervised and so when he found that glass of water I let him do the job. All the place was a mess but what the heck? :rofl:

Edit: Just called the vet. It's parasites of some sort. I am going there to get the medication.

[Mummieeva]

Sounds like molting to me. The flakes could be the keratin coming off. I could be wrong though. My birds are molting as we speak and the bird room is a sea of feather. I have enough for a few dream catchers..Maybe Christmas gifts..lol.


Steph

[bellarains]

Ziggy,

It does sound as if Thanasis is molting. The "dandruff" you see could be the keratin sheath coming off the new feathers coming in. As new feathers grow they have a keratin sheath around them and they will preen or scratch it off to open up the new feather. Can you feel any prickly feathers on Thanasis, especially around his neck, head and cheek areas? You may also be able to actually see these.

Unless you actually took Thanasis in for some test there is no way the vet could know what is wrong, if anything. I would not medicate him without knowing for sure. BTW, are you speaking with a board certified avian vet? If not, and you need to find one, there is a link in The Lovebird Resource Library to help you find one in your area.

TTYL,

Lori

[Ziggy]

Well I will check him visually when I return today but laying a bare hand on him is still a no-no. :mad: Is it the normal cycle of molting that the feather dropping will stop at all body parts and then the new feathers come or does it happen simultaneously? I am asking this because Thanasis' feathers have gradually stopped dropping. Oh and another thing that might help is that when I closely inspected those tiny chips that had fallen off I saw that they were transparent. Maybe this is an indication of keratin?

As for the vets. I am living in Greece first of all. The link has only one certified avian vet and it is in another city. Luckily it is my home city but I am away (student). Maybe when I will be for Christmas vacation, I will give him a full check-up but for now my hands are tied. The vets I have at my disposal are people that own the pet shops here but they are not avian vets as you can understand. The things I know for Thanasis' care are the things I have read here. To make you my problem even clearer, imagine that these pet shops have no wide range of products for the lovie's care. What am I saying? They have no range at all. For example, there are NO pellets here (and some pet shop owners didn't know what pellets are!). The pet shop whose vet suggested me the anti-parasite spray is quite good though and I found him just the last few days. I asked him too about pellets and he told me that they don't have any because nobody buys them. :mad: I think I'll start buying stuff through the internet...

[butterfly1061]

When you see keratin in chips, yes it gives a transparent look.

I agree with Lori, it sounds like Thanasis is molting. I would not give him medication unless the vet has actually seen him. An assumption on the vets part could be dangerous for your lovie. I understand that you are somewhere where you are limited to vet care, but be careful. I just find it disconcerting that a vet would diagnose without seeing the pet first hand. It just sounds like molting. My lovies loose feathers in "bulk" and sometimes a few at a time while molting.

[Janie]

I would not medicate him without knowing for sure.

Ditto to what Lori said.

I also think it's the keratin you're seeing. I have three lovies now and my bird room is full of that and the tiny little downy feathers. I also find lots of it on the cage liners.

As far as molting, my Oliver usually goes through a full molt in about 3 to 4 weeks. I never see a bald patch so whatever is coming out is being replaced with new growth at the same time. My younger lovies are molting but far from a full molt. With them it's mostly lots of little downy feathers and the keratin.

[Ziggy]

Ok thanks to all of you for the very valuable advice! To tell you the truth I was too a little concerned about using this spray and that's why I asked here for confirmation. The other time that I gave him the vitamins I did not worry much after I saw that the content of the solution was just vitamins. This time I will wait to see how he goes without the spray and all.

Time to make that birdie bread! :happy:

[shylevon]

It sounds to me like your birdie might also have a little bit of dryness to his skin. The vitamins are probably causing him to produce an adequate amount of oils, so the itching stops, thus the feather plucking stops also.

Feeding foods that are high in oils, like safflower, sunflower, and hemp seeds, especially in winter, will also help alleviate the dry skin problem.

I do agree that the white powder you are seeing is keratin and this stops when the molt is over. Some birdies do pluck when they are itchy, and molting sure makes a birdie itchy. The high oil seeds will also help with the molt, and get those new feathers growing in strong and supple.

Some people also hang a vitamin/mineral block in the cages. These last a long time, and birdie will usually only indulge in a nibble when their bodies need a little something extra.

[Mandolin]

I'm just wondering how often lovebirds molt? My Kameko is slowly going through her first molt so she is getting in her adult feathers, right? It is kind of cool because she keeps turning more and more yellow. But i am wondering when her tail feather will fall out because when we first got her she needed a heat lamp and it got a little too close and she stuck her butt out of her cage a little too far and she singed the tips of her taill feathers... it looks kind of funny. I was just wondering when to expect that to be corrected.:happy:

[Mummieeva]

Hmm I belive it is atleast twice a year they have a big molt. Mine all are done with theirs I think. I sent bird feathers to some friends in Christmas cards this year...lol.


Steph

[Mandolin]

lol... thats not a bad idea. I was thinking of holding on to some of the bigger feathers when they come out. Right now she has only lost some feathers on her main body, so they are all pretty little. They wouldn't lest in a christmas card.

[Janie]

I have held on to so many feathers that I could make a large feather pillow! :D When I find one of Oliver's large colorful tail feathers in the bottom of the cage, I feel like he's left me a gift! :) I've already done three dream catchers (that Shy made) and pretty soon, I'll be ready to do another one for the other two. They are six months old now and have dropped several large feathers already. I can't seem to throw anything other than the little downy feathers away. Too pretty! :D