a little PO'd today. Need advice

[MaraJade]

A few months ago I sold three of my four baby lovebirds. I spoke with all the people various times through email and on the phone.

The person who took my littlest jade green baby did not come to pick him up on time. She said her husband's father had died and she ended up coming for him next weekend. That gave me a bad taste, but things happen so I let her come to my home and take "peaches" as she named him.

She did not have a carrier with her so I let her borrow one of mine. Since then she has been set up to drop it off TWICE and has not showed and then has offered me excuses about it.

I was just browsing craig's list and she has put my lovebird (along with her other three that she got from god knows where) up for sale! She told me that Peaches had killed his two other cage mates but that they really loved him so they would keep him as a single bird. Apparently he didn't kill his cage mates cuz she is selling him with another lovebird!!

She claims they are clutchmates, which is obviously not true since i only sold her one.

I am just infuriated right now. This woman is not in the same situation I was with Silver and Gold where she has to downsize. She is lying to me and to everyone else and trying to make a profit off my poor little lovie that I raised in my home. I am so sad and angry right now.

I wish I had $80 cuz I would just buy the two and be done with it (find them better homes with people who wanted my birds but I didn't have enough to go around). One thing's for sure, next time I breed birds I am going to have a much better screening process. I hate to be that way, but oh well. I knew I didn't have a good feeling about her. I should have gone with it.

What do you all think I should do? I have already emailed her just to make sure it's the right person and the right bird and it is so I emailed back to ask if she was breeding them or just downsizing. Haven't heard back yet. . .

Should i call her on it and tell her I know she's been lying to me and that I want just mine back for like $30 or something? Or should I just leave it alone and know I can't do anything?

The thing is, rehoming is fine. But I know she doesn't care WHO takes these birds and the thought of one of my own out there being mistreated is too much to bear. It's totally worth the 30 or 40 dollars to me, but is that just feeding into it and helping her? Is it better to just help the bird and say screw her and not worry about the fact I'm giving her money?

What do I do? I'm just so torn up. :(

[bellarains]

Jessie,

I can only answer for myself, but I think I would offer her the money and go get MY bird and MY carrier. From what I'm reading, it really bothers you, and this is what would make you feel better.

Are you playing into her hand? Maybe, but you can maybe work that to your advantage. If she has a soul that is, you can make her feel a bit guilty by telling her that you had understood she was taking your baby to give it a permanant home, and that you can not stand the thought of Peaches going to someone you don't know anything about. Hopefully that will persuade her to let you take Peaches back. You can also turn it around by telling her that this ensures her that Peaches is going to a good home, and you KNOW that's what she really wants.

I hope all goes well. I'm sure you can place Peaches better than she can, and that's the important thing.

[MaraJade]

Thank you, Lori.

OKay, I got in touch with her and she didn't ask me any questions at all except which two of her four I wanted. sheesh. I'm meeting her tonight after work and I'm paying $60 to get Peaches, his buddy Rainbow, and their cage.

I haven't told her who I am and I"m debating between a couple things:

1. I show up and say I didn't recognize her email address and isn't this a coincedence?

2. I can show up and say I'm sorry I deceived her, but I want to make sure these guys get a good home (the variation on this one is that I say I didn't know it was her at first, didn't bother telling her, and I know she just wants them to have a good home so I'm buying them back - like you sugggested Lori).

I guess we'll see tonight. I might try to get John (my fiancee) to go for me. lol. I'm such a chicken. At least I got Peaches back. And a buddy on top of it. But now I have to find them better homes. I definitely can't keep them, not after just finding Quicksilver and Goldmoon a new home. ::sigh::

[LauraO]

Jessie: Lori gave you some great advice. I also wanted to add that I've seen others reply to sale items on Craig's list. If you post the truth about this woman, after trying to get peaches back of course, it will make it hard for her to sell the lovies.

Good luck and I hope you can work something out to get Peaches back.

[bellarains]

Jessie,

Bless your big heart. Not only will you ensure that Peaches gets a good home, Rainbow will as well, and get to stay with his companion. I hope you will find a good, loving home for them.

[butterfly1061]

Jessie,

I think your plan is a good one, but definately take John with you in case she gives you any flack. Don't apologize for anything as you are the "good guy" in this situation not her. I'd do plan #1 - play dumb :p and get Peaches back and his cagemate. I think most of us here would do the samething you're doing. That's why they call us responsibile pet owners :D Good luck and let us know it works out.

[BarbieH]

I wouldn't say a word to her about whether or not you recognized her. Just make the transaction and leave. Let her draw her own conclusions!

[LauraO]

Just curious Jessie, but is there any way you could be mistaken about this person's identity? What makes you think it's Peaches this person is selling?

[MaraJade]

You guys are really the best and you remind me why I miss this board when I'm not on here. :grouphug1

My loving fiancee has said he will go FOR me because this woman has been so out there about other stuff that we are afraid she would refuse to sell them back to me just to be difficult.

So John is going to go and get them and I am going to find them awesome homes! I am so excited. I"m glad I get to save Rainbow too.

I am seriously considering posting something on CL about what she pulled. You're right, people do read it and they will remember that and pay attention.

It's not so much the reselling (though that is annoying); it's that she does not care where they go. She's just trying to get whatever she can for them and who cares if the birds are hurt.

She has told me SO many stories now, both knowing it was me she was talking to and thinking that I was a different person today. Either way, she really does not deserve to have these beautiful birds.

I wish I could keep them, but I know I will at least find them some awesome homes or just one home. I don't believe Peaches and Rainbow are as attached as she let on since she told me Peaches killed his cage mate on November 8th and then on the 23rd said he had killed another cage mate that she didn't put in with him until the quarantine period was over. So the quarantine is now 15 days??? So I doubt they are that attached, but I will observe them and see. She probably just threw them in a cage together today. :eek:

I'm so glad I am getting them. Thanks for all the great advice everyone! I'd love to chew this woman out, but I think it is safer to just send John and just get the birds to us safely without any conflict. Thanks!!

[Mummieeva]

Me evil women I am would post about it as soon the birds are home. Also from now on make anyone who gets your birds sign papers saying if anything happens the birds returned to you. Not all might follow it but some might have brains and do it. Good luck and update us.


Steph

[Buy A Paper Doll]

I think sending your boyfriend is a great plan. Don't feel like a chicken! The goal is to get those birds away from her as uneventfully as possible. :)

[MaraJade]

Yea, Steph, I thought I had made it clear to her that I would easily take them back, but I guess not. Now I'll have to have an official paper to sign. It's sad that you have to have people fill out so much paperwork for a lovebird that they should automatically WANT to take the best care of possible, but. . .

So Peaches and Rainbow are here. No wonder she thought she could get away with telling people they were clutchmates - they look identical. And since I didn't band Peaches, I can't tell them apart. But it doesn't matter since I'm not keeping them anyway. I'm going to start trying to find them a great home today.

Their cage is awful. NO grate at the bottom and it is rusty in spots. So they can't stay in that. Augh. This woman is unbelievable. I guess when John picked them up from her she said, "Oh, didn't your girlfriend tell you I said she could have all four birds for $80?" She didn't tell me that, but whatever. I wish I could have been there. I would have gone to get $20 more to save those other two, but I got my bird back to rehome him safely so I guess I will have to be satisfied with that. Maybe those other two's odds will increase since the woman doesn't have to impatiently find homes for all four birds now.

Thanks for all the support. Off to find some great owners! :)

[bellarains]

Jessie,

I'm glad you got them back home safe and sound. Here's hoping that the perfect new owner is just around the corner :)

[Paulette]

Oh...Jessie....I'm so glad you sent John....that's exactly what I would have done.....no confrontation......isn't it amazing what some people will do....and people are going to do whatever they want to do.....only those with a good conscience would come back to you if they needed to rehome....but I think you are right she's just trying to make some money....I beleive that was your Good Deed for the Day!...and I'm glad it worked out. I'm liking less and less that I'm going to have to sell my babies!....because people like this woman are going to drive me crazy. We kind of discussed this before with Joan Gault and that woman that wanted one of her babies so she could let it fly around the neighborhood. And I don't think anyone ever replied as to how to turn people down or turn them away if you think they are not capable of taking proper care of a lovebird. So what do you guys do to screen? And even if you screen, lets say well as in good.....because I'm sure we all will give good advise to those who buy our babies....but again, people are going to do whatever they want to do. So, do you just have to detach yourself?....I guess you'd just have to or everyone who buys your babies is going to drive you crazy.

Jessie I'm glad this worked out for you. :D

[MaraJade]

Thanks Paulette. :)
Well, I have thought long and hard about the whole screening process since picking up Rainbow and Peaches on Friday night.
Maybe this should be in another post so we can all exchange ideas, but for now I'll just leave it here. First of all, someone wanted a lovebird to let it fly around the neighborhood???!! I never heard about that one. Sounds like a whack job to me. :omg:

Since Friday night I have developed a four page questionnaire based on a standard one that you will find on any shelter's page. I've removed a few of the questions like where the person works. I don't think I need to know that. I just need to know how they are going to care for the lovies. And most importantly, at the bottom of the application I have put this:

I understand this bird must remain in my home. If my circumstances change, I understand I must contact Ivo’s Lovies . I will forward any changes to my address(es) and/or phone number(s) to Ivo’s Lovies.
I also agree to an interview prior to approval, and I understand that this means I will be meeting with the breeder prior to being told I can have the bird. I also understand that Ivo’s Lovies may contact my references prior to approval of this application. Since this is an electronic application, I understand that printing my name and sending this from my email address holds me liable to the agreements made above.

Oh yea, did I mention I asked for two references? Yep, I'm going to actually be that bold and call people. I mean, every respectable shelter in massachusetts does it. Why not me?

As for turning people down, I've always gone the wussy route when someone sounded like a bad match - "I'm sorry. The bird was actually just placed today." But I may get bolder with time and just tell the people they are not a good match for a bird.

The bird store I go to - Feathers - is awesome. The woman who owns it breeds quakers. Her husband was telling me yesterday when I brought my lovies in for a clip that she used to tell people the bird died if she didn't like them! lol. I guess people would put a deposit down on a baby and not come into the store again until it was ready to go. Like two months of the owner not seeing these people. So when they'd come in she'd give them their deposit and either say the bird died and they would have known that if they'd come in or that since they didn't come in she placed them elsewhere. That's what I should have done when the woman who took Peaches didn't show up the first time. Argh.

Anyway, that's my plan for the future. :wink:

[prplecandl]

Jessie,

Thank you so much for standing up for our pets! If you could post those papers I would love to see the questions and maybe print them out to be able to use them someday!
It takes people like you to show the world how to treat animals, and if we all follow in your footsteps then we will start changing people. The thing that bothers me the most, if people are willing to treat speachless animals like this, how do they treat there children? Do they just pawn them off on someone else when they are bored or tired of them? :confused: GRRRRR...

Ok, now I am done venting... lol... thanks again, and good luck rehoming those saved birdies! :grouphug1

[MaraJade]

Here is the link to my adoption form:

www.angelfire.com/ma2/newworld/writing/
ivoslovies_adoption_app.doc

Angelfire does not allow direct linking so you may have to copy and paste it into your browswer instead of clicking on the link.

Feel free to steal it word for word. I basically just used templates I found at shelters online and changed it a little bit to fit me and my lovebirds. Hope that helps.

And if anyone thinks of anything I left out, let me know. I want to be as thorough as possible (without being completely annoying :rolleyes: ).

[prplecandl]

I wonder would it be too awful to ask to see the place where they are taking the bird? Like the house and the room that it will be in?? :cool: I know it sounds rude, but I think it might ease some minds when letting our pets go... :2cents:

[MaraJade]

I wonder would it be too awful to ask to see the place where they are taking the bird? Like the house and the room that it will be in?? :cool: I know it sounds rude, but I think it might ease some minds when letting our pets go... :2cents:

I considered that. That's why I kind of left it open. Like I may meet with them just at my house or I may ask to meet with them in their home. and when people say they have kids I always ask to meet the kids. You can tell a lot about whether a kid will be mean to animals just by watching them for even a few minutes....

[Mummieeva]

Very good ideas. I would also do a home visit before placing the birds. About teh refrences I would make them give you their Avian vets phone number also and check up through them.


Steph

[Paulette]

Hi Jessie.....ok....all good ideas. I can't access your form......But some people will wonder what's up and have someone else call for them if they get turned down. Because if you are a breeder and have an ample amount of birds....then there are more available even if you just sold that peticular one, unless you say you only have a couple available.

Having their work place could be a very good reference for you to check....since your employer is usually not related to you or good friends with you....you might want to leave that in.....employers will at least let you know if this person is responsible (shows up for work everyday or is cronically late). This is going to drive me crazy. I can already tell. And I for one don't want to be going to stranger's homes...my husband will forbid it. Maybe get their address and directions and drive by it later and see how it looks on the outside.....you can tell alot by how people take care of their yard....but if it's way out in the country.....I just don't want to get into some situation that I don't want to be in. Those 3 women are still missing from our area and it's been several years now (a middle aged woman, her daughter and her daughter's friend)...nice looking/smart/well dressed women....vanished without a trace....together all 3.....the mother of the one girl travels and gives seminars on how to protect yourself. So unless you know the people you always need to meet in a public place during the day time....and I'm sure you all already know this.

I'm considering joining the local bird club...it's a 12.00 annual fee and you get a list of breeder/members and thus they will get your information. So far they had a bird fair in July, Oct. and one coming in Feb. I don't know what it costs to rent a table, but I'm going to do some checking. My babies will be old enough to sell by then and well weined...you spend one Sunday from 9am to 3pm....you'll see people in person, give them advise and some good information.....and you're done.

What does everybody else do?.....Do you advertise in the paper?(sometimes if it's under 100-- you can ad for free)....Put up posters at your local vet offices?.....some internet I suppose, but then you have to pay for a web page(unless you have a software prog.that gives you free web page)......I guess some word of mouth via friends and family and where you shop.....etc. Am I thinking about this too much!.....I think I need to go find my Christmas decorations. I've already had my foo foo coffee and it didn't help. :x

[MaraJade]

Very good ideas. I would also do a home visit before placing the birds. About teh refrences I would make them give you their Avian vets phone number also and check up through them.


Steph

On page two I ask for their avian vet's contact info. :)

[cassysmiley]

Hi Jessie
I have few spare mins, and read this post with interest and dismay on what you had to go through. :grouphug1
But i wanted to also let you know how Our rescue centres ect go about things when it comes to re-homing pets, albeit birds, cats and dogs.
1st they vet the Home, No if or Buts.!!! They then ask them questions on how to look after the animals.
If then they pass the vetting in check, they will be asked to sign a form stating they will agree to a follow up visit after 1 month or in some cases more, all depends which Pet rescue centre you use. When they go back to visit, and if they deem the animals are not being cared for properly, they are then legally allowed to remove the animal. Our R.S.P.C.A are extremely strict on this Procedure.
I used to Rescue many animals also a foster mum to mainly dogs and cats and boy you wonder where on earth how These Humans can treat our Animals in such an appalling way.
It may also be worth to, if you do sell your birds again to put in N/C. which means No Canvassers, in which you have found in this case.
Am so glad you got them back and you had a quick eye to spot this woman. I also would go out of my way to name and shame her and warn other Innocent buyers what they are letting themselves in for. In effect to me she sounds as if she is running a Bird farm, Like we have Puppie Farms here in U.K.
Kept in disgusting conditions.
Hope this helps from this side of the pond on how we do things to try and protect our Beloved Animals.
Love
Cassy. xxxxx

[MaraJade]

Thank you Cassy. Those are all good ideas.

I'm waiting to see if she will post any more ads before I call her on it. I talked to her one more time through my fake email and she is still saying that my Peaches is a clutchmate to the one named RAinbow that she sold me with him. ::sigh:: Some people. . .

Plus these birds are terrified of people. She said to just work with them and they'll be fine. Yea. . .because obviously you worked really hard with them. :roll:

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts, all.

[Joanie Noel]

I just read this post >o and I have something you also might consider. I don't think anyone mentioned it already, but correct me if I'm wrong! If I were placing birdie babies in new homes, I don't think I'd feel comfortable visiting the potential buyers' homes unless they were people I knew well enough. Something one of our avian rescues here does is requires you to bring the cage you will be placing the birds in so they can see if it is adequate for the size of bird. I think that is a good idea. Although, if the person is going to place the birds in a large, non-transportable cage, then I would even require a picture of it or something. Cage space would be a huge factor for me in determining if my birds should go with someone. There is nothing I hate more than seeing little birds placed into tiny cages just because they aren't thought to need much space. What a common and misfortunate misconception! It's like the whole beta fish in a tiny fish bowl scenario. Even if it's a fish, I think it deserves a little more space than that, right?! So yeah, screening about the cage thing is a good idea if possible. :)

Good luck with everything, Mara! I agree that what you are doing is so great for the lovie community. :)

Oh! I also wanted to mention that it would be a great idea to give out a fact sheet on lovebirds along with the contract papers. The breeder that sold me Aruba did that, and even the most trivial things are good for new owners to know.

- Joanie

[MaraJade]

Oh! I also wanted to mention that it would be a great idea to give out a fact sheet on lovebirds along with the contract papers. The breeder that sold me Aruba did that, and even the most trivial things are good for new owners to know.

- Joanie

Awesome idea! :)