Managing your vet: VERY IMPORTANT

[p3rr4n]

When dealing with your avian vet, it is very important that you manage the situation very thoroughly and carefully. Don’t make this mistake of giving him/her blind trust.

A few weeks ago, Karen and I took Trixie to a local avian vet for a wing clip, because we just couldn’t get to the breeder's store that Trixie came from (he’s awesome and we trust him 100%).


I was very specific about what I wanted the vet to do with the wing clip. Trixie's breeder had been managing Trixie’s wing clip so that he couldn’t free fly, but could get out of trouble if he had too.


I was quite specific with the vet's assistant AND the vet. I said and I quote "Follow the lines that the breeder has been doing regarding the clip. Don't cut any feathers that haven’t been cut before"

When it came time for the clip, the vets assistant held Trixie and he did the cutting. At first it looked like the vet was going to follow my directions, he was holding the scissors in such a way as to avoid the feathers that hadn’t been cut and would only line up with the ones that had been being cut, then without warning, in a flash of an eye, he moved the scissors and cut ALL of Trixie’s feathers!

By the time I saw what had happened, it was too late (this all happened in less than a second).

Now Trixie cannot fly AT ALL. All of his flight feathers and the other ones (I forget what Linda called them, maybe she will chime in) are gone and if I did a good job telling Linda what happened, it may be 6 or 7 months before he regains his ability to fly at all. As it is now, he can barley jump from my shoulder to Karen’s when we are sitting next to one another at our computers (we are maybe 10 to 15 inches apart.)


The morale of the story is this. Unless you have a LONG standing relationship with a vet, make the vet repeat your instructions exactly as you give them, if you have anything specific you need done.

I would even do it in small steps. “Mr/Ms. Vet do this, now repeat back to me what I said to make sure I did a good job of articulating my wishes... Ok good now the next step” and so on.

You should do this with a kind and polite demeanor, but FIRM and CLEAR too, or you too could be betrayed. I never ever would have thought that an avian vet could screw up something as simple as a wing clip, and yet it happened. Be very careful when dealing with your vet, and never make an assumption that your wishes are being carried out.

I felt angry, betrayal and most of all, a sadness for my little Velcro buddy I cant articulate. I feel like I let him down, even though I did make a sincere attempt to manage it correctly. I learned a lesson that day, and I hope that this information is able to help some of you avoid a disaster in the future.

[Angelwing]

That's terrible. What did you say to the vet, and how did they respond? Poor little Trixie.

[Janie]

Perran, :eek:, I am sorry!!!! Does Trixie glide or thump to the floor?

I just experienced two bad wing clips from my dog vet. She is also avian but not board certified and I don't use her except for wing clips since she's only a couple of miles from my house. My bad clip was kind of the opposite of yours. She left the first 3 or 4 feathers and clipped behind them. They can fly....oh boy, they can fly just as well as they did BEFORE the clip. My dilemma is that they were flying too well (right over to Oliver's cage) but if I clipped the longer feathers in front, would they THUMP to the floor??? Well, I called my breeder, Rubygem, and she said to take just a little off of the longer feathers and that has helped. I'm going to have to wait now, till a lot of feathers grow in on both of them and then I'll go to my favorite specialty store or to their avian vet for a proper clip. My dog vet actually did this same clip on Big Boi and Shy back in September and it worked like a charm that time. Don't know what the difference was this time. She didn't go against my wishes, just followed the same clip she'd done (successfully) before.

Let me add, your post is important reading! I think that we know our birds better than anyone else can and it is very important to be their advocate when they go to the vet (for any reason) or somewhere else for a wing clip. I ask my vet every single thing she's doing when Oliver is in her care. It might drive her nuts that I do that but he is MY bird, MY love and no one cares more about his health than I do. I did the same thing when I took my kids to the doctor and I would do no less for my animals. It's a shame that your vet did not "hear" what you wanted for Trixie. I can't imagine what more you could have done to make it perfectly clear and as you said, it's over in the blink of an eye and too late to correct it. Fortunately, those little wing feathers will grow back and very soon, I hope!

[Robin VZ]

Janie,
I think some groomers and vets think it's more aesthetically pleasing to leave the first couple of flight feathers undisturbed. Unfortunately, with lovebirds, this leaves them too much lift and also leaves those feathers more vulnerable to injury. I agree with Perran, you need to be very specific about what you want even with an avian vet. Their main experience may not be with lovebirds and that leaves you at a disadvantage. If Perrans bird forgets he's clipped and tries a familiar move, it could dump him rather abruptly to the floor. Perran's bird will also be more vulnerable to injury when the new flights start coming in because there won't be any feather structure to protect them. :eek: >: >: >:

[Janie]

Janie,
I think some groomers and vets think it's more aesthetically pleasing to leave the first couple of flight feathers undisturbed.

Robin, that is exactly why she did that type clip. I didn't know any better but I DO now! Funny thing though, with Oliver, she followed his previous clip and did not try this new "thing" on him. I won't use her again. It was cold and she was close and I figured less time in the car for the boys. Not worth it.

[butterfly1061]

Perran,

This is a very good topic to discuss with all our members. I had the samething happen to me with Molly. I asked for a modified clip and Molly got a full wing clip. He was only 9 weeks old and had only been flying for a few weeks. I was soooooo mad and never went back. Molly was so afraid to fly once his flights had grown back. It took me a while to get him to fly to me from very short distances to regain his confidence. Poor baby. I will never let this happen again to any of my birds. :mad:

[mjm8321]

I'm glad you posted this Perran, but I really feel sorry for poor Trixie. It makes me angry that people don't always listen carefully. I would have told the vet they weren't getting paid....jerks.
I was terrified of clipping wings the very first time (and a few times after that) however in doing the clip yourself, you have full control. Even if someone says "yes, I understand exactly what you want" those scissors or clippers can quickly take a wrong turn.

Our vet suggested a new way of clipping wings and we have begun doing this clip for our birds. It's actually done with toenail clippers (for birds, dogs, etc...not humans) and it has worked great for us. It's the clip shown about halfway down the page http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/clip.html

[Janie]

MJ, I have looked at that link before (I've looked at SO many, :D) and that looks like a very good clip and what is written about it makes sense, too. I'm sure I could buy that type clipper from my vet. I do have toenail clippers for my dog but what I have would definitely not work on a birds wings. I'll check that out and then drink some "brave juice!" (Let me be clear, I am only kidding about the juice and would not dare drink anything stronger than water before I clipped my birds! :lol AFTER the clip, I would! :whistle:) It really is crazy not to do my own clips since my birds are easy to handle. Do you do the clip w/o help? I know Jackie has but I feel like I would have to have a partner to keep the feet/toes out of the way. Thanks for the link! :D

[mjm8321]

Janie, you can get the clippers at most stores, here's what the last pair I bought look like http://www.petsalley.com/petnailscissor.asp I think they are also used for cats and dogs. It does take a bit of time to get comfortable with clipping, though I'm still not 100% comfortable with it, but it's probably best that way as I am very careful (to the point of being anal :lol ) about wing and toenail clipping.

[sdgilley]

Perran,
I'm so sorry for poor Trixie. A bad clip like that sounds horrible. My vet is more likely to underclip than overclip, so we discuss it and check it afterwards. But I'm lucky for that. I'd really like to clip my birds' wings myself... maybe one of these days.

[linda040899]

Hi Perran,
I'm so very, very sorry that this vet chose to ignore your instructions and clip Trixie's flights in a manner that can actually be dangerous to his well being! >: >: >: >: >: Everyone needs to remember that you are the one who pays the bill for services rendered and I've refused to pay for things not done the way I requested!!! There is no excuse for clipping glide feathers, other than ignorance, and I wonder how some vets get through school without being able to listen to or follow directions. Just because what you wanted was not his/her preferred method did not give him/her the right to ignore your request!

[Z28Taxman]

Poor Trixie! >: >:

Ditto and I know all about bad clips. He had the mother of all bad clips when he came here. Most have probably seen the pics. His wings were just stumps. >:

It took him 7 months to even be able to fly a few feet and over a year before all the feathers were back. It took another 6 months after that before he even tried to fly. After he started flying it was so pathetic, he was so out of shape he'd huff and puff after flying just a few feet. It took another 6 months to get back in shape again.

That was 2 years ago and he hasn't been clipped since. No need since he only flies to get to me or back to his cage for a snack and back to me again. :cool: If I want him to fly further than that I have to make him chase me. :lol

Ditto says to tell Trixie to hang in there, they'll grow back and daddy owes him extra millet until they do.

[bellarains]

Perran,

I've been where you are, and I have to admit I threw a little hissy fit. I included in my hissy that I would never be back, and that the amount they were charging me to mutilate by birds was outrageous. My regular vet had open heart surgery, so I took them to another vet to get their trim. Needless to say they will not get any reccomendations from me>:

Tell little Trixie that you and Karen will have to be her taxi for for awhile, but they will grow back, it's heartbreaking to watch for awhile though I know:(

[Buy A Paper Doll]

Wow, that HAD to be upsetting. If the vet doesn't pay attention when you're explaining something as straight forward as wing clip, what happens if - God forbid - you have a life threatening emergency?

[Bella]

How ghastly. :eek:

[Angela]

Do you mean the vet cut all the Primary AND Secondary flights?
I haven't clipped my birds yet, but I have read about it and seen the illustrations but I know that you are never supposed to cut the secondary flight feathers!

Poor Trixie!

[p3rr4n]

Hey everybody,

Thank you for all the support.


That's terrible. What did you say to the vet, and how did they respond? Poor little Trixie.



Because Karen was with us, I was able to keep my mouth shut and restrain myself. If she hadnt been with, I definately would have blown a gasket, and the outcome would NOT have been a pretty site. My blood still boils over what he did.








Perran, :eek:, I am sorry!!!! Does Trixie glide or thump to the floor?



Let me add, your post is important reading! I think that we know our birds better than anyone else can and it is very important to be their advocate when they go to the vet (for any reason)

Trixies thumps to the floor. There is zero flying. Its simply a jump at this point with no control.


I agree this is important! It is my hope that everyone, especially the newer owners can learn from what we are sharing. Even though I was very speciffic, multiple times, I was not heard. From now on, I will say ONE sentance and make them proove they listened and understand before moving to the next, and at the end I will make them repeat everything. Its a shame that this has become neccesary. Let me add that I am not the only one who has been screwed over by a vet, so we must all be very careful.






I agree with Perran, you need to be very specific about what you want even with an avian vet. Their main experience may not be with lovebirds and that leaves you at a disadvantage. If Perrans bird forgets he's clipped and tries a familiar move, it could dump him rather abruptly to the floor. Perran's bird will also be more vulnerable to injury when the new flights start coming in because there won't be any feather structure to protect them. :eek: >: >: >:


How true. I might add that managing wing clips is only the begining. EVERY thing we have done needs to be managed. Someone said it best, WE know our birds better than anyone, and its important we are heard and understood.






Perran,
I'm so sorry for poor Trixie. A bad clip like that sounds horrible. My vet is more likely to underclip than overclip, so we discuss it and check it afterwards. But I'm lucky for that. I'd really like to clip my birds' wings myself... maybe one of these days.


You are so right, it is horrible. Trixie went from an adventurous curious lovie to a very clingy and timid lovie within about 20 mins. It will take many months fro him to be able to return to his true self, and that is a shame.





Poor Trixie! >: >:

Ditto and I know all about bad clips. He had the mother of all bad clips when he came here. Most have probably seen the pics. His wings were just stumps. >:

It took him 7 months to even be able to fly a few feet and over a year before all the feathers were back. It took another 6 months after that before he even tried to fly. After he started flying it was so pathetic, he was so out of shape he'd huff and puff after flying just a few feet. It took another 6 months to get back in shape again.

That was 2 years ago and he hasn't been clipped since. No need since he only flies to get to me or back to his cage for a snack and back to me again. :cool: If I want him to fly further than that I have to make him chase me. :lol

Ditto says to tell Trixie to hang in there, they'll grow back and daddy owes him extra millet until they do.



SOunds like once again, Ditto and Trixie have a shared experience and Linda advised me the night it happened somethign similar to Dittos timeline. :(






Perran,

I've been where you are, and I have to admit I threw a little hissy fit. I included in my hissy that I would never be back, and that the amount they were charging me to mutilate by birds was outrageous. ......

Tell little Trixie that you and Karen will have to be her taxi for for awhile, but they will grow back, it's heartbreaking to watch for awhile though I know:(

I wish I could have done just that, but ti would not have stopped there, so I kept my mouth shut and just walked out and let Karen handle the exit portion of the visit.



Wow, that HAD to be upsetting. If the vet doesn't pay attention when you're explaining something as straight forward as wing clip, what happens if - God forbid - you have a life threatening emergency?


Exactly the reason I posted this thread. I want to help all our lovie owners avoid any kind of preventable situation with thier lovie's health care,





Do you mean the vet cut all the Primary AND Secondary flights?
I haven't clipped my birds yet, but I have read about it and seen the illustrations but I know that you are never supposed to cut the secondary flight feathers!

Poor Trixie!

Yep. Linda says they have ALL been wacked :(

>: >: >: >: >: >:



Let me add that we appreciate everyones heart felt support so very much! I cant begin to tell you how much you all mean to us. This community is special and we are proud to be part of this very special flock.

We love all of you, yes even you Dave :P

:grouphug1

[Z28Taxman]

We love all of you, yes even you Dave :P


Ok now I'm scared! :eek:


Hopefully Trixie has adjusted and is his normal (albeit non flying) self again.

The butcher that got Ditto even cut the coverts.>: That vet was lucky I wasn't there.>: >: >:

[BarbieH]

Wow Perran. I think I would have thrown a hissy anyway. >: I definitely would not have paid, or at least, not without a major snit.

MJ, you're right. This is exactly why Tim and I learned to do the clipping ourselves. We used to use those nail trimmers, and I understand that they may leave fewer shaft splinters which can be less irritating. However, any very sharp pair of scissors will work. It depends on what you are comfortable with.

We trim our birds as a team. I hold the bird and Tim does the trimming. We take individual birds into the bird-safe bathroom. We keep cornstarch and witch hazel on hand in case of emergencies. We take the opportunity to check each bird's overall appearance. The nippy bird (you know who :eek:) gets toweled.

[Janie]

We trim our birds as a team. I hold the bird and Tim does the trimming.

Barb, do you loan Tim out? For team trimming? :D I am positive I could trim all three of mine (actually did a mini trim on BB & Shy a few weeks ago, alone!) but what I don't have is a "trimming partner!" :( My hubby honestly is afraid to help me. Not of the bites cause Big Boi is my only biter, but that he will hurt them or that "it" will hurt. It's always been that way with our dog, too, and he adores her but if she needs medicine or anything unpleasant done, that is always my job. Maybe because he did not grow up with a house full of critters? :confused: I am not giving up on him, yet, because I agree, it would be better to do my own to be sure they get the clip I want them to have but I would feel much better about it having a partner! :)

[graushill]

Quote: "The nippy bird (you know who ) gets toweled."

I'm sorry, I just couldn't help smiling at this subliminal reference to Ms. Graciness, one of my all time favourite lovies at this board :). Aww Ms. Gracie, looking at her pictures I just can't believe she's such a biter :).

I'm definitely not laughing at what happened to poor Trixie though. I'm really sorry about the terrible wing clip and I do applaud Perran för doing us all the great service of sharing this experience with us. I do hope Trixie will be feeling better as soon as possible.
:grouphug:
Gloria

[Robin VZ]

Not of the bites cause Big Boi is my only biter, but that he will hurt them or that "it" will hurt.

Janie,
your hubby and mine are similar in this respect. First time he helped me clip wings on babies, he had tears in his eyes and wanted to be SURE WE WEREN'T HURTING THEM! He's very gentle with the animals and most grooming chores etc. are always my job. He does the tummy rubs. :D

[BarbieH]

Janie, it is hard the first time. Tim took it very hard with the sounds Gracie was making, and he regularly trims our cat's nails. But he got over it ... it was a safety thing, and it allowed him to socialize with his beloved Gracie more.

Holding them can be tricky because some of them wiggle -- a lot! Maybe you could start off dh by getting him to hold one bird at a time. Build up his comfort level on a very small scale. Tell him to pretend he's holding an egg, no more pressure than that. Show him Linda's picture of how to safely hold a bird.

The birds do know how to play it up big. :rolleyes: Tell him he has to do it, because what if there were an emergency and you weren't home. He needs to know how to handle the birds!

If that doesn't work, maybe you and Jackie could get together every few months for a wing-trimming party. :D

[BarbieH]

Gracie, that's who. :D Yup Gloria, you guessed it right. It's hard for me to believe she was such a nasty biter, but I guess we just reached an understanding. I don't do anything she dislikes, and she won't bite me for it. ;)

[Janie]

Very good ideas there, Barb! I need to have another look at Linda's photo on holding a birdie, too. All three of mine wiggle and especially Oliver! Shy is by far the calmest. Since they are all three so tame, I've never had to worry to much about how to hold them but for a wing clip, I will! Usually I just say "come here bird" and reach right out and pick one up. All three love to be held.

Jackie does hers ALONE! Heck, that's what I need to do.....haul mine down to Florida, excuse me, SOUTH GEORGIA, :lol, and have her do them. I can be there for moral support! :D And sue her if she messes up! :rofl:

Gloria, I have never really believed those bad birdie stories about Miss Gracie! She is way too beautiful to be a bitter! :lol

Robin, that is what I'm facing here.....he really is afraid he'll hurt them and we all know they do tend to make a racket even when you touch their wings so that is a real problem for him. :rolleyes:

[bellarains]

Racket????

That does not even begin to describe the noise Bela makes. He sounds as if you were taking an axe to him and chopping him up into little bitty pieces. On top of that, he pouts forever, then contrary to the norm, he becomes nippy when too many flights are clipped. I guess it just pi$$es him off:mad:

I have found that I can only cut about 3 flights from Bela as he's not a very strong flier, Lacey's my little zippiteedooda birdie.

All that said, you know I don't clip them. Ain't never, and ain't gonna:rolleyes:

[Janie]

Racket????

That does not even begin to describe the noise Bela makes.

:rofl:


All that said, you know I don't clip them. Ain't never, and ain't gonna

Again....:rofl:

[butterfly1061]

Daisy makes so much "racket" when I clip her, the other birds come running to rescue her. Olivia and Piper actually bit me last time I clipped Daisy. Maybe I should always take her to the bathroom to clip her wingies.

[LauraO]

Racket????

That does not even begin to describe the noise Bela makes. He sounds as if you were taking an axe to him and chopping him up into little bitty pieces. On top of that, he pouts forever, then contrary to the norm, he becomes nippy when too many flights are clipped. I guess it just pi$$es him off:mad:

All that said, you know I don't clip them. Ain't never, and ain't gonna:rolleyes:

Cookie likes to throw out the death cries when we clip his wings. He's the only bird my husband and I tag team these days. When we clipped his wings we tried to towel him but he fought and fought so my husband got out the gardening gloves and held him as I clipped. The lovies are no problem and I do the clipping. In fact, I prefer to do it alone because I'm calmer and better at it then hubby. I used to be terrified but it's something one can only get past after doing it a time or two. The most important thing is to remain calm and take your time:) .