trying to build trust

[peppero1]

hello everyone,
I would like some advice.
I have had my lovebird Peppero for about a year and a half now (he is almost two years old) and he is my first bird pet (not considering childhood pets for which i was not responsible) anyway, i am having issues with how to build trust with him...
I have a hard time respecting his limits. For example usually when i have the time to spend with him, it's in the evening and he seems to be ready for bed, so i have to decide whether giving him attention, even if he doesn't want it, is better than no attention at all for that day. Frequently i will resort to grabbing him and taking him out against his will and this seems to not be helpful in building trust.
Also, when i handle and pet him i can't quite tell if he is enjoying the experience or if he is simply tolerating the attention until he can escape.
lately he has become nippy alot and this is causing me to wonder whether there is any trust here at the moment. Also, I must admit that when he bites me i do the earthquake thing but when it's a harder bite, i hold his beak and give him the "blanchard" evil-eye,,, but it doesn't seem to work as he still will nip until he is left alone.
Just to give you some background, i recently got him a new and much larger cage which to my shock he eagerly embraced and never looked back,,, also i have plenty of toys for him etc. so he isn't materially deprived, but he does spend the majority of the day alone, and when i come home, most days he crawls from his happy hut to see what i am doing, but when i approach the cage he usually runs back into it. On rare occasions I put my hand in the cage and he responds to the "up" command and i can take him out.
When he is out of the cage he always responds to the "up" command unless he is on his cage or on my shoulder.
He is potty trained and is about 80 percent accurate.
So all in all, my biggest concern is that he still usually tries to run away from me when i try to take him out of the cage and also he is nippy when it's play time because it seems he wants to be returned to the cage,,,, all of this leads me to believe that he would prefer to be left alone and doesn't really care to solicit my friendship....
Any suggestions on what i can do to build trust so that he will want to be better friends and eager to spend time with me? Ideally what I would like is that when i come home i open the cage and he jumps onto my hand, ready to interact.
thanks for any advice

[Angelwing]

Hey Peppero, how are you? Have you moved to Winnipeg yet?

I would not recommend grabbing Peppero against his will if you want to gain his trust. Instead, let him come to you. Entice him by using his favourite food (spray millet is a big hit with all my seven birds). Hold the food out to him, and eventually he'll come and eat it. Slowly move the food closer to you, but if he backs off, move it back closer to him. Eventually you'll be able to move the food closer to your hand that isn't holding it, and hold it in such a way that Peppero has to jump onto your hand in order to reach the food. This is how I gain my birds' trust, and I've found that it works very well. Since Peppero all ready steps up and allows you to hold him at times, it'll most likely be no time before he'll readily comes to you. It may take awhile, though, before he fully trusts you. Just be patient, and spend some time with him everyday. Sit by his cage (with the door open) while you eat, read or watch television. He'll most likely become interested in what you're doing, and may even join you! It may seem that he wants to be left alone now, but once you spend more time with him and gain his trust, it is very possible he may become a velcro birdie. :cool:

When you say you do the 'earthquake' thing, I hope that doesn't mean you hold him and shake him a bit. I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate that, plus you don't want to hurt him. :(

Good luck, and keep us updated on your progress.

[peppero1]

hi Lisa,
thanks for the advice, I will give it a try, but I think I need to understand him a bit better, because the nippy bites and fear seems to be coming from my rough handling or my inability to know what he wants.
Yes, I was in Manitoba for three months, I even joined the parrot club. But, now I am in Seoul again. I was wondering if you were at any of those meetings in October or November?

[Janie]

Hi!

I wanted to recommend that you remove the happy hut during the day. If your bird is a hen, it's better to offer the hut only at night. I have two males, brothers caged together, and they love their happy hut but I only put it in the cage at night.

I agree with Lisa's comments about the "earthquake" method and grabbing him/her. If you're trying to build trust, that won't work. I do have one that bites (out of three) and it is tempting to shake the heck out of him but I just grin and take it. In my case, he does not bite so that I'll return him to his cage. He loves to be out but just can't quite control that beak pressure. When he bites me, I hold him firmly but gently and say "no bite" while putting my fingers on his beak. Does it work? No, not at all! :lol I don't think he has a clue what he's doing when he's biting and that makes it even harder to figure out how to stop it. His brother is not nearly as friendly but never bites. Go figure!

Since you are gone for most of the day, would it be possible to spend out of cage time with him in the morning before you leave? If he's ready for bed by the time you get home, it's not the best time to bond. Have you tried taking him into a dimly lit bathroom (cover mirrors and commode) and spending about 15 minutes talking and playing with him? That has worked for several people. Also, have you thought about getting him a buddy? That would not help in his bonding to you but it might (no guarantees unfortunately) make him very happy. I am home most of the day but I think if that were not the case, I'd always consider having two instead of one.

[Angelwing]

hi Lisa,
Yes, I was in Manitoba for three months, I even joined the parrot club. But, now I am in Seoul again. I was wondering if you were at any of those meetings in October or November?

I can't remember which one I was at. It may have been both September and October. I remember them talking about getting more books for the children, as well as providing a bit of funding for the pets that were lost because of Katrina. But I normally work Friday nights, so I'm usually unable to go.

Did Peppero stay with someone in Seoul?

[BarbieH]

To clarify, the earthquake method doesn't mean that you grab and shake the bird. It means that if the bird is perched on your hand or arm, for instance, you gently rock it back and forth so that the bird has to refocus its attention on getting its balance.

I have had to do this with Gracie, who used to go on biting sprees for no apparent reason. We sure weren't trying to hold or touch her, as that would have meant loss of flesh and blood. :eek: The ocassional earthquake could stop her from biting, and then we could try to distract her with something else.

It sounds like you have a pretty good idea why Peppero is biting. Now you need to apply what you have learned so that you don't get bit. :) Do as the others suggested, keep the cage door open, tempt Peppero out with treats, etc.

If you do reach in to bring Peppero out, do this at a time of day when his temper is better, preferably early in the day. Take him into a small, darkened room (bathroom works great), and when you are in there with the door closed and commode lid closed, let Peppero perch on you without trying to constrain him. He needs to learn about you as something more than "the one who grabs and holds."

Good luck!

[Elle]

I have a very odd schedule now and Blu spends all day alone. When I get home, Blu wakes up because her cage is in an area well travelled. ( I get home at 8:30 at night and its dark) She wakes up and comes out of the cage to play and visit. You can try removing some of her favorite toys from her cage and offer them to her ONLY when you are home and play with her outside teh cage.
Blu loves a certain mirror. It is never in the cage, it is meant to be played with outside the cage. When If irst introduced nutriberries and figs to her, it was outside the cage ( actually on top of the cage) to entice her to come out.
Do you cover the cage at night? If so, cover it later and uncover the cage later in the morning. Change her habbits so he is more awake when you are home.
If you get home and it is dark, you can buy a timer to turn a lamp on so Peepo is not falling asleep before you get home.
The goal is to find an activity or a game that Peepo can enjoy with you only.
I take Blu to the bedroom when I work on the computer, talk on teh phone or do other things. My goal is away from the cage, she forgets about it and wants to explore. If we are near the cage, she will want to go back to it. She now flies to the bedroom by herself and calls and calls for me until I go join her. It's her playpen I guess :)
When I got her, she was not tamed or socialised. She had a big turn around in her attitude towards us humble humans back in November.
My husband spends time with her in the kitchen. When he makes a salad for supper or anything that does not require the stove or oven, she is on his shoulder supervising and tasting and approving our choice of vegetable.
It sounds like Peepo is on the right track. He has mastered the art of stepping up and in a way is already showing that he is trusting you. What you need at this point is to show him that you are FUN! You need to get him interested in some activities outside the cage that you can do with him. And trust me, because it's alovebird you have, it will not be hard. Lovebirds are curious by nature :)

Hope all works out well for you,

[peppero1]

thanks for all the advice. And to answer Angelwing, yes Pepero did stay with my friend in Seoul while i was in Canada. It was funny because I think he remembered me even after three months... but it was a rather stressful time for him as i had just returned here and also i moved to a new apt and gave him a new cage.
I have been removing his happy hut lately and yes, he seems to be more interested in the outside world. That's an impovement. Also, i have been taking him out in the morning before i leave for work and he is more interested in playing than in the evening. Though i definately am not, so he watches me get ready for work, shave etc.
thanks for all the suggestions, and Angelwing, let me know what happened at the parrot club meeting if you go this month OK?

[Mandolin]

Sounds like you are making progress now. I sure hope things continue to improve. Keep at it, it is definately worth it in the end :D .

[peppero1]

So I have now made quite a few changes and can report that things seem to be improving...
-moved the cage into a smaller room so when I take him out into the living room for playtime he doesn't see his cage
-he gets more sleep and the room is more quiet and dark as opposed to being in the living room where the lights are on until late
- I take out the happy-hut each morning, he doesn't really like this, and he is much less nippy when i have my arm in his cage now that it's out
-I am also trying to be less agressive during our playtime and more gental, as he responds in kind

I guess the key is to be observant and also try different approaches to see what works the best. Thanks for all the advice.

[Angelwing]

Happy to hear that things are going better with you two. I hope it only gets better from here!

[Elle]

That's just the start! You'll see it will get even better. I find with Blu I have to break the routine. We have a morning routine ( because of work and getting ready) but in the evenings we make changes. PLay with different toys in different locations and also different games. Keeps her on her toes :D

Glad to hear things are improving,