Spoiled? My lovebird avoids cage like the plague

[kvandyke]

Hi: This is my first post; I appreciate your collective wisdom! I'm not a "bird person," historically, but I suppose I am now that I have a lovebird. Magpie is a year old and was hand-raised by, apparently, a miracle worker. I never knew birds could have such personality or be so tame. Magpie is more like my dog (which used to be my pet of choice); if he/she wasn't already named, I often think I would have chosen Fido.

We got Magpie when he/she was six months old and have had him (I feel that he's a he) for as long. It's been an extremely positive experience, for the most part. I feel lucky after reading some of the biting posts -- I used to think he had a tendency to bite a lot (not in a hostile way), but it's nothing compared to what some of you go through. Once in awhile he'll really grab a finger, but for the most part it's just annoying nibbling. (It might be my imagination, but he seems to "bite" more in the evening -- or when I'm putting on makeup, because he seems to think makeup implements are threats) And the less I react, the less he does that. Distracting him, or just keeping up a near-constant chatter, seems to be the best solution. And he has his good days and bad.

The problem we do have is, I suspect, my fault. I love interacting with Magpie so much (I recently bought a FlightSuit so my S.O. doesn't get more irritated by Magpie's poop, and so I can take him outside on a leash this summer) that I'm pretty sure I've made him hate being caged. At first I was going to address this as a noise problem, but that's really a byproduct of his cage avoidance. But the noise is a big problem.

If he's caged during the day when we're home, he immediatetly begins that incessant, metallic-sounding "barking" (see? a dog). It's just ear-splitting. Which is almost funny, because our next door apt. neighbor has a Pekinese that drives us crazy with his barking (but that's at 6:30 a.m., right outside our bedroom window). I'll end up just taking him out of the cage again (bad) because we just can't deal w/it in our small apartment, and I don't want our neighbors to deal with it, either. God knows what happens when we're gone; no one has complained -- yet. And we're gone all day (nothing we can do about that), except on weekends and the two weekdays when my SO isn't working. Other than that, we're always home. I work at home, too, and I can't get any work done, either when he's caged or free (in which case he'll be on my keyboard). The noise drives my S.O. crazier than it does me, but that's just relative. (And he has always had birds; mostly budgies. O/wise he gets along great w/him -- except he's also less tolerant of the pooping. But that's not a huge issue, especially now that we're getting a FlightSuit!)

Is it too late to correct this "barking" problem? We eventually have to resort to putting him in another room, covered, and he's quiet (most of the time). But this makes me feel very, very guilty. (I'm afraid we're all going to end up on the Dr. Phil show!) I just think it's a bad solution.

Is there any way, at this point, that I can make him more content in his cage? (But then, I've heard that noise is a sign of "contentment." Not on my part, though!) Should I be imposing some sort of a schedule on Magpie? I have never really done that, other than to put him to bed at the same time every night (which Magpie actually "taught" me). I'm not sure if I can be consistent enough to make it worth the effort (just schedule-wise). I feel like Mary Poppins would handle this much better. Ignoring it doesn't seem to be like an option, although I do try to praise him on those rare occasions when he's sitting quietly (eating) in his cage. He does do that, for a little while, but rarely.

Getting another bird is OUT OF THE QUESTION.

Thanks in advance for any input!

Kim

[Jill Page]

Kim,

I am certainly no expert but my vet acquired this poor Macaw that no one wanted because he was so loud. It turns out that that is the way he would get attention...his last mistress tried everything to get him to quiet down and the more she tried, the more attention she paid him. I am new to lovebirds, so I don't know much about them, but i am sure the same philosophy would work, much like my loud Amazon who hates it when i leave the office ( she is in my office all day). I refuse to acknowledge her when she is loud, but instead will walk by and talk very very quietly to her, almost a whisper. If she continues I say something like No bad bird and I cover her up. As soon as she is quiet, i take the cover off. The vet told me she does this with the Macaw as well. Who knows....of course if there is an annoying barking dog next door.....maybe the dog needs it more than the bird!!! LOL

Jill

[butterfly1061]

Hi Kim,

Welcome to the board! I am owned by four lovies at the moment. A Peachface Lutino, a Creamino, a Pied and WF Cinnamon Violet. I can't answer all your questions, but I'll try and help with some things. First, I'd forget the flight suit. Others on this board have tried or considered them and never used them. Lovies are hard to fit in them and when your talking about a small parrot who thinks he's the size of a Macaw, there are just some thing not worth it. I'd hate for you to loose your trusting relationship with Magpie based on the confinment of a flight suit.

If you can, try to get Magpie on a schedule with things like: feedings, treats, out of cage time, bed time, etc... Once on a schedule he will know what to expect from you and you from him. I take mine out the cage first thing in the morning for about 20 minutes and when I get home from work for about 1 1/2 hrs. On the weekends, I try to give them as much out of cage time as possible, but not over doing it - at least 2 hrs a day - minimum! Lovebirds are very social birds and they want to be with you all the time. If on a schedule they can be better prepared for "their" time and the noise level you hear may become less. Although it could be several different things causing the noise, but I have found mine do it for attention. Do not take him out every time he screams. He will see this as a way to get out of his cage and the problem will take some time to break. Please do not cover his cage as a means to make him quite as this is a cruel jester to handle the problem. Others on the board can give you suggestions as to how to handle different noise problems too.

When you are gone from home, leave a radio or tv on for him. I leave a radio on for mine everyday while I'm at work. They love tv - the kids shows! :2cents: Good Luck! and again welcome to the board :)

[bellarains]

Hi Kim,

First, welcome to the board. I'm glad you and Magpie(love the name BTW) found your way here. We will help all we can to try and find the best solution for both Magpie and yourself.

Birds so function best on a schedule. It will take awhile to break Magpie from his velcro birdy routine, but it can be done. Once you pick a schedule for him, try to stick to it as best as you can. For instance, a morning time out, back in for breakfast. Since you work at home, you can have a time out between breakfast and lunch, and then back in for lunch,and so on. Try and get Magpie used to his times in the cage, and always reward him for going back in. A small piece of millet spray will entice him in, and make it seem like it was his choice to go in the first place;)

Magpie will call out, and sometimes birds just need to make contact with their flock. Since Magpie is a single bird, you are his flock, and when he calls out, call back. If he is barking incessantly, tell him "Shhhh" and walk away. It is like teaching a baby to sleep through the night. You let them cry for 5 minutes, go in and comfort them, go out, let them cry 10 minutes, go in, go back out, etc.... As soon as they are assured you are always going to be there, they settle down eventually. It will get better and better with time.

Also, be sure Magpie has something to amuse himself with while he has in cage time. You might even try getting him a birdy buddy to snuggle up with, or a cozy to take little siesta's in if he doesn't already have one. Here's a link to show you what a birdy buddy is if you don't know.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=6380&Ntt=birdie%20buddy&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=0&Nty=1

You will have to try different things to see what works best for you and Magpie, but be assured, you can set him a schedule, it just may take some time, and the noise level may be up there until you get it down pat:rolleyes:

Magpie sounds like a sweety pie, and I look forward to hearing more about him. Please post us some pics in the photo forum if you have any, we love to put sweet little faces with names:)

The flight suit???? We haven't really had success stories using those on lovies. It is however possible to potty train them. You can try and calculate how often he poops and hold a paper under him and teach him the "Poop" command. As always, when he does manage to hit the paper, praise him highly and offer a treat. Birds comprehend positive reaction, but not negative, so praise works really well.

Good luck!!!!

[Z28Taxman]

Welcome Kim!

Ditto used to do the "I'm not going in that cage" routine too. He was about a year old then and a complete velcro birdy. What I did was to take him out frequently when I was home. I'd take him out for a few minutes for snuggles and head scratches and put him back. Of cours I'd have to fight him back in, he'd jump on top of the cage or grab onto the door and hold on for dear life but he got back in. Then I'd leave him in there for a bit and get him back out again. If he knows he'll get to come back out again that day he'll be less likely to fight going back in.

Now I have a schedule for him. When I get home from work, he comes out and we get his veggies ready, fill his regular food bowl and change his water, then it's in again so he can eat. About an hour later he comes out and spends about a half hour with me here at the computer until it's time for me to make dinner and he goes back in (he eats his dinner when I do too :cool: ). Then at 9pm we go to the couch to watch tv for an hour until it's time for him to go back in his cage to unwind for half an hour before bedtime. Now he's 3 years old and goes right back in the cage as soon as I walk over and put him in front of the door. He's been doing this for about the last year and a half.

As for the noise, Don't know if I can help you there, if Ditto's being quiet I'll actually chirp at him to get him going. But since he loves to talk to the sparrows outside, on the odd occasion when he's really being loud I'll just start making quiet sparrow chirps and he changes to that. :lol

[kvandyke]

I'm crestfallen to hear about the flightsuits. I was so looking forward to it!! By the way that Magpie rules our roost, I'm not sure I'm terribly against a little confinement. He is out of the cage at least as much as you say yours are. Way more, actually. It's pretty clear that he needs some constructive scheduling. I'm going to have to get into kindergarten teacher mode and try to remember what it was like raising a toddler (a good policy with birds, I'm learning, but one I haven't put into full swing). If flightsuits don't work on lovebirds, are there harnesses that do? Aside from the poop issue, I was looking forward to "walking" him on a leash outside occasionally. I'll try the positive reinforcment/ignoring shrieking route, but I'm not sure my SO can get through the interim shrieking. But it's flying (remote control airplane) season soon, so he'll be gone most weekends -- when Magpie is at his noisiest. (I only work at home nights/weekends, in addition to working ft days M-f). Thanks for everyone's help! Will keep you posted and will post photos. He's adorable: An olive green with a subtle peachy face edged w/white. Very Marth Stewart. I have seen those fuzzy nests. I'll pick one up. And maybe some new toys to rotate more often. I have a fake fur hat I thought he'd be interested in, but he likes my hair a lot better. He nests in half a coconut shell, but I'm not sure how often (since he's never in his CAGE!)

[kvandyke]

This is all great. I'm getting this routine thing down. I'm starting tomorrow. There's noise (chirping I like to hear), and there's noise, Dave. When he's barking to get out, it's like a seal. A lot of seals. You must live in a warm climate. It'll be great to open the windows and hear normal birds again! In a month or two!

[Mummieeva]

Lovebirds are so small I would hesitate to use any type of harness or suit. If you have a smaller cage you can take that outside with you. One reason I bought the cages I have is they have wheels so i can take my birds out on the porch.



Steph

[bellarains]

Kim,

I also saw birds in a flightsuit at bird fairs and though, "How awesome is that", but they were big birds like Cockatoos, McCaws, etc.... Little lovies are a bugger to try and get one on, and the struggle to try may make them see your hands as something bad.

As for taking Magpie for a walk on a leash, not really a good idea. There are so many bacterias they can pick up outside, and of course now we have the possiblity of the avain flu coming our way. They do make a carrier like the ones you use to carry a baby around , but this one has a mesh opening in the front so birds can see out. Maybe this would be an option to the flightsuit or leash. Here's a pic of one on Dr. Foster and Smith. I use their site alot:lol

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=10921&Ntt=carrier&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=2003&Nty=1

[Janie]

Hi Kim and welcome! :)

I have three lovies and my first and oldest (adopted by us over two years ago....he's around 9 or 10) is a real velcro birdie. Since I am home most of the day, every day, I created that habit. I bought a few CaCa capes, POOP capes to be exact, and let him stay on me for hours, every day. It did get to the point of driving me nuts at times but because he was a lone lovie, I hated putting him in his cage since he is a sweet little boy and wants nothing more than to be the growth on my neck. I know you said getting another lovie is out of the question and I do understand that but, :lol, that really might be the answer to many of your problems. I got two more, mainly because I figured my older lovie was too old to bond with another bird and I did not want another velcro birdie, and it has been a very good situation for us. Now, instead of wanting to be on me all the time, Oliver is very content to be in the bird room with the other two. They are caged separately, Oliver has his own cage and the other two boys (brothers) share one, but all three are out of their cages nearly all the time when I'm home and get along amazingly well. Three are louder than one but the noise has never bothered me and my family is adjusting, :D.

I agree with the suggestions above.....getting Magpie on a set routine will help. It might take a few weeks but lovies are smart and do adjust well given enough time and patience.

I've seen the flight suits and I agree about that, too. Lovebirds are too small for flight suits! I like the carrier that Lori linked above and am thinking of getting one for Oliver so that he can go with me when I walk my dog. :)

[BarbieH]

Hi Kim, and a belated welcome. :)

You sound like a very observant and thoughtful lovebird owner. When you wrote, "It might be my imagination, but he seems to "bite" more in the evening," that's quite true. They get fussy, like little feathered toddlers. If they are tired, they act out. Beaking is how they communicate with each other and the world around them.

I agree that the routine will help darling Magpie settle down. Once a lovie notices the routine, and starts to anticipate it, they seem to feel so clever when the routine happens over again. 8) The routine itself becomes very dear to them.

Lori also mentioned sending contact calls back to your lovie when Magpie starts barking. It can help change the tone of his call into something a little more tolerable. I know the barking sound well; when I had one lovie, she did it on her own, mostly around mid-morning. Now we have a flock of eight, and they all start up with their various calls around the same time of day. It sounds like a deranged cuckoo clock factory! :lol Then, all of a sudden, it stops.

If you want to try to absorb some of the sound in that room, try to limit the number of slick or glassy surfaces. If it's a hardwood or ceramic floor, get area rugs. If there's a lot of window space, add curtains. Try to limit the amount of glass, which can reflect sound. Add a very heavy cloth to the table where Magpie's cage sits. It all adds up.

Best wishes, :)

[kvandyke]

I really underestimated Magpie's intelligence, although I should know better (I'm a slow learner). I tried what Dave recommended beginning first thing this morning: Putting Magpie in the cage frequenlty and taking him out (pretty much just as frequently) whenever he was quiet, while I did things around the house (he loves to "help" with housework, especially changing the sheets), plus what others recommended re: starting to integrate that effort with something of a schedule (challening for my inferior human brain). I lengthened the times I left him in the cage, but also kept him out for long periods as always. I talked to him a lot when he was being relativey quiet in his cage and tried to ignore him otherwise. I can actually tell the difference already. He seemed to stay quiet in his cage for much longer periods, and to do more talking/chirping than shrieking. I only covered him when he really let loose, after awhile, after I had to move his cage to a bedroom while I waxed the kitchen floor (to keep him away from the fumes).

But I neglected to mention in my other posts that his wings had grown out completely since we got him (he had been clipped once by his breeder). They've been grown out for at least 3 mos., or at least he's been flying freely for that long. We had been putting off clipping them (mixed feelings, but I can see both sides, and gradually began leaning much in favor of clipping again). So this evening, my SO clipped them (he has done this many times w/his budgies) while I held Magpie with a gloved hand and extended his wing(s) with the other. I am less pro-clipping than my SO, but it helps me a little that a bird can still fly at least somewhat afterward. The upshot is that the clipping also helped, in terms of noise and simple manageability. If I had an aviary, or a big house, I might be less prone to want to clip a bird's wings. But all of our "wings are clipped" on many levels, in many cases for good reason, so I'm not sure if the issue is always properly in the realm of inhumaness. But I empathize with Magpie. It's a little like giving him bird valium. We'll let them grow out again to see if it helps us get past these "behavior" issues (which are as much our behavior issues).

I'm buying him a fuzzy nest, some new toys and treats tomorrow. And keeping up this routine. I'm not sure it was laziness on my part so much as forgetting to haVE faith in his (and maybe my own) ability to learn and willingness to please. Silly me! :whistle:

Thanks everyone, it's great to have your support! (I forgot to take new photos to post; will do that asap)

[bellarains]

Kim,

I'm glad to hear you and Magpie are making progress. He seems to be accepting his new schedule very well. WAY TO GO!!!!:)

[kvandyke]

Barbie: Those are great suggestions re: noise aborption techniques. It is a little echo-y in here. Little feathered toddlers: exactly. How much more lovable could a bird possibly get? (Sometimes it feels more like an annoying little brother, though.) He's definitely easing my long-term empty nest syndrome, w/my daughter off at college.

I don't know how you people with 8 or 13 (or even 3 or 4) lovebirds do it, though. You all deserve medals.

[kvandyke]

Thanks Bella!

(I should have added in my previous post: Medals -- or psychotropic drugs!)

[kvandyke]

Funny, I saw that mesh backback carrier online last week and thought it was a great idea. Not sure I'm ready for it, though.

What's a caca suit??

[kvandyke]

I mean caca cape -- but never mind; I found it in the archives.

[butterfly1061]

Here's an example of a Caca Cape. I've seen them at the birdfairs.

http://www.birdsupplies.com/browseproducts/CaCa-Cape.HTML

[Janie]

Yep, that's my CaCa cape! Kat's CaCa capes.....I have 5! :D

[kvandyke]

Wow: My SO just reported that the birdie has been quiet (quiet, not a zombie) all day and hasn't needed to be covered or moved into the bedroom once; that he's on the stick in the window nibbling on the drapes at last report. He's a new bird; maybe he just need structured attention (he always gets attention), and a wing clipping (sorry to all of you who disagree w/this practice. It's complex). I never expecte results from the "behavior modification" so quickly. Your advice and support is invaluable!

PS Magpie is in my avatar now; here's the full photo of him on the window stick: http://www.berkshire.net/~blivsey/kvandyke/magpie/

[Janie]

Kim, he is precious!!!!! But you knew that, didn't you? :D

I agree about wing clips. Some birds really need them and some do fine with full flight. Gotta do what is best for each individual birdie. I have three and my older bird is almost fully flighted (and loving it) right now. He is tame as can be and is never a problem to get back into the cage so for now, it's working and he will remain flighted for as long as it's a good thing for him. The other two? NO WAY! :lol They would get into way too much trouble. They have a little flight and for them, that is enough!

Glad that Magpie is having a good day! :)

[bellarains]

Kim,

Magpie is adorable!!! I love the way he stood up real tall for his picture:lol

Yep, a little wing clip ensures safety for our inside birdies, and also makes them easier to handle, and keeps little a little more on the tame side. I always tell mine when they get what I call zippity do da, "Time to see Dr. B."