Are they fighting?

[Janna]

When I picked up my 2 lovebirds, the man told me they squable and fight. Well they do act like they pick at each other and get really loud, so I was just wondering if they actually are fighting or is it just their way of communicating?
Also I was thinking about seperating them...I have read several different things about this and i'm a little confused. I have read some places it's ok to seperate and then someplaces say no, it's too stressful...so what are your opinions on this. The reason for wanting to seperate is I prefer them not to breed. I'm not 100% their male/female, thats just what the man told me so I'm going to assume they are. Also if I don't seperate, what age do they start breeding? They are about 5 months old now.

[BarbieH]

Hi Janna, welcome. :)

Whether or not to separate the birds depends on many individual factors. Let me ask you some questions so we can get started on finding the best solution for you.

All birds will squabble from time to time, but some are more serious about it than others, and they can hurt or even kill the other bird. Has there been any bleeding or damage to either bird? How do they resolve their fights (i.e., one runs away or they just fight for a long time)?

How large is their cage? Birds will fight over space if there isn't enough for each bird.

How many food dishes are in the cage? Sometimes incidental fights can be resolved by adding a food dish a little distance from the main dish.

Is either bird spending a lot of time up in a corner of the cage? That bird is scared and may benefit from having its own cage.

Do you know what genders your birds are? Hens tend to get very aggressive with each other. Two males can also squabble over cage territory. Heck, even males and females will squabble together, but in general it's the two hens who can really hurt each other.

Hopefully we can help you shed some light on your birds' behaviors.

Best wishes,

[Janie]

I can't add a single thing to Barb's reply! She has covered it all and the questions she's asked should give you a good idea about what's going on with your two. Good luck! :)

[Janna]

Thanks for the welcome:)
I'm not sure they are male/female, thats just what I was told...I measured the cage and it's 27" tall 19" wide. Is that enough room for both? They don't really fight as in acting like they will hurt each other, it's more like a bickering at each other with a little pecking with it. I haven't noticed either in the corner of the cage, they mostly sit in their box but when out they both stay on the perches (theres 2 of them).
They have 2 food bowls and 1 water bowl but I haven't noticed either of them eat yet though. I wasn't sure if they actually were fighting or if it's just normal bird behavior! My main reason for wanting to seperate is because I had rather them not breed.
Someone also recommended removing their box to help prevent laying eggs but they don't come out long enough for me to take it out. Everytime we come close they go in there and won't come out. Any suggestions on that? I would also like to remove it so that maybe we can work on trying to tame them...they are really scared right now!

[Janie]

First off, I would line the bottom of the cage, under the grate/grill, with white paper towels. That way you'll be able to see any food/seed droppings so you'll know they're eating. Not eating would be a huge concern. How long have you had these birds? What are you feeding them? Did the man you got them from tell you what he fed so that you could start them off on the same thing? Second, I'd get them DNA tested to be sure what you've got and as Barb mentioned, if it's two hens, you might end up with no choice but to separate. Unless the man had them DNA'd, he's only guessing about their sex. And third, even if they are male/female and lay eggs, you can stop the eggs from hatching by boiling them and returning them to the cage (early on, right after each one is laid and before it becomes a chick) or remove the eggs and replace them with plastic eggs, the same size. You never want to remove eggs and not replace them with something....that could make a female continue to lay and lay and lay. But, that's putting the cart before the horse since you don't know their sex. I would definitely remove the box.

Do you have toys in the cage, something to keep them happy and entertained? In my largest cage that two of my birds stay in when they aren't out, I have two swinging toys, one boing, and four or five toys they can chew and play with. Several perches, too. Wood and rope types. I keep at least three seed dishes, with different foods, in different parts of the cage. Mine use a water bottle and I have one of those in their cage. It is a huge cage and that makes it easier for them to have time apart, even when they're in the cage.

I have two males, DNA'd brothers that are 10 months old. One is definitely the Alpha bird and will pick on the other. Never to the point of any blood or bites, just squabbling. They also do sit huddled together on their perch often and preen each other a lot. They usually sleep together inside their happy hut but sometimes the Alpha bird (Shy) sleeps inside and his brother (Big Boi), on top of the cozy, depending on little "Shy's" mood that night! :D But, 80% of the time, they DO get along very well. BTW, I probably would not offer a cozy/happy hut except at night if you have hens. That can also promote laying. Even with my two males, I remove the cozy every morning and add one of their favorite swings.

I want to recommend one more thing, a yearly vet check by an avian vet. I took mine for a full physical right after I bought them and will take them back yearly or as needed.

[mjm8321]

I'd suggest removing the box. Is the box inside the cage or attached to it? You can get them out of the box by opening the lid or door and I'll bet they'll come right out. If your hands are in there, they won't go back in; then you can just take the box out or off. They are simply using it to hide in at this age and it won't do you or them any good to always be in it. If they are a male/female pair, it will also may have them breeding as soon as they are "of age". Most bonded pairs do bicker (much like many human pairs ;) ). With mine, as long as no one is getting injured, I leave it alone.
If they are really "wild", they might be nervous and not feeling secure and might be bickering because of that also. Finding a good location for the cage where they can get ample rest and not feel stressed out can help.

[butterfly1061]

I agree with MJ. I posted under your introduction about the nestbox because you said the birds were only 5 months old.

http://www.lovebirdsplus.com/community/showpost.php?p=35882&postcount=6

[Mummieeva]

I will third it about taking nest box out. A nest box can encourage nesting behavior and at this age it can be bad. Everyone else all ready answered the questions better then I could..lol


Steph

[Janna]

Thank you everyone for being so helpful!!! I took the box out and one of them got very upet. It keeps fyling to the bottom of the cage looking around. Now...should I go ahead and try to hold them? I left for a little while to go pick the kids up at school and got home and they had bird seed all over the floor so they are eating now...I was starting to worry!
They do have toys in their cage...although I feel the cage is not big enough for the both. I'm going to look at cages this evening and see if I can find something more fitting. I also got them a cuttlebone (sp?) earlier but haven't noticed them doing anything with it...the man sent a container of premium cockatiel food and I put some apple peices in a bowl for them. I also put a little dish of water for them to bathe in. I am in the process of finding a vet in the area that sees birds but not any luck yet, so I may have to look out of town! Anyway...sorry for rambling on, lol! I just want to make sure I'm doing things right for my new birdies:)

[Mummieeva]

How long have you had them in your home? If it has not been long I would wait on sticking hand in there still. Sit near their cage and talk to them. Depending on were there cage is try eating(or snacking) near their cage. There are a few places to look for cages. The first is a bird fair which they have great prices. They have the cages at lowest prices I have seen. Another is e-bay. Sometimes you can get a great deal on a cage there. Yet another is this site with cages.http://birdcages4less.com/ They have ok prices also. You can find a link in the library here for avian vets in your state.


Steph

[mjm8321]

Also, if their wings are not clipped, I'd suggest clipping them. It will 1) make the taming process easier 2) help to avoid wing injuries with two "wild" birds flapping around the cage to get away from you.
Cuttlebone is always good to have, though some birds never touch it until their body tells them to.

[Janie]

I agree with Steph, I'd wait and give them more time to adjust before reaching in for one. I'd also second that suggestion of a wing clip but unless you know how and are comfortable doing one, that's something I'd let an avian vet do, too. My three are all tame but other than clipping a feather or two, I don't do mine, my vet does.

I'm very glad to hear that they're eating....a huge relief. Try spending as much time as you can just talking to them, near their cage. I'm sure they are confused by this move to a new home and need to calm down and settle in.

Anytime you offer fresh food (i.e. the apple slices) be sure to remove it after about 2 hours to prevent bacteria. Also, most of us have much more luck getting our lovie to eat vegetables over fruit, unless this man had already had success feeding them fruit. Raw broccoli was the first veggie my older bird would eat. All three of mine love it now and will also eat carrot strips, sugar snap peas (I open them and remove the peas for them) cooked white rice, cooked popcorn and birdie cornbread. Check out the health/diet section of the forum for some good ideas on what to offer them. The Lovebird Resource Library is also a great place to learn information about lovebirds....for new owners and old, too! :)

[butterfly1061]

Janna,

For a vet, try this http://aav.org/vet-lookup/locate-vet2.php?query_field=state&search_string=ar or these

Arkansas
72116 BAEYENS, MARILYNN M., DVM North Little Rock
72601 FLEMING, AMY LEE., DVM Harrison
72758 BELKNAP, NANCY J., DVM Rogers

Janie & I have a problem with avian vets too because there aren't many in our area. It's hard too believe since we are in Atlanta and not too far from an excellent vet school (UGA). The one we use is in the metro area, but I have to drive about 45 mintues to see her, but she's worth it. Good luck finding one. :)

[Janna]

Thanks for the vet info...the looks like the closest one is about 45 mins away for us too. I've only had them for 3 days. We came about getting these 2 when my husband was helping a neighbor move. He called me and told me to come down, he got us something...and it was our 2 love birds! The people that had them was moving to an apartment and they said that they would be too loud to take and if we hadn't of taken them they were going to take them to the Petsmart parking lot and try to give them away:roll: Well I don't know anything about birds but couldn't stand to see them going to just anyone so we loaded them up and brought them home...and I'm just totally in love:D
So my next question is, when taking them to the vet, is there some kind of smaller cage I can put them in to take them or should I take them in their big cage? And also, should I wait until they are a little more tame to take them or go ahead as soon as I can get them in?

[Janie]

Janna, I would take them as soon as you can. You can find small cages, perfect for vet trips, at most any pet supply store. I have one that I use for mine and it was around $15 but if you can find a bird fair in your area, you can get a better price on just about everything bird related. My vet trip cage is just over one foot by one foot.

My first lovie was an unexpected addition, too! :D I'd never laid eyes on a lovebird when a friend asked me if I wanted to adopt her daughters lovie. The girl was leaving for her first year of college and her mother didn't want to keep Oliver. I went up to her room, took one look at him (he stepped onto my finger) and said I would "think" about it. Came home, found this forum, read and asked a few questions and then went back and got MY birdie! Now, 2 1/2 years later, I can't imagine not having him! He was already very tame so I did not have to work at that but I did have to work hard to build a trusting relationship with him. He was already about 6 or 7 and I'm sure he was totally freaked out at being re-homed at that age. He had never been to a vet either. I took him for his first physical, about a week or two after I got him and other than being very thin, the vet said he appeared to be in great shape. He has gained SEVEN grams since I got him! :D

Do you have any idea what age your birds are? If you can chat with the original owners, that would help. You could find out an approximate age and also lots about their behavior. If they were ever handled or given out of cage time. It might take you several months and lots of patience but you can form some type of bond with them eventually. They might not ever be velcro birdies but you can improve their lives and hopefully become apart of their flock. :)

[butterfly1061]

So my next question is, when taking them to the vet, is there some kind of smaller cage I can put them in to take them or should I take them in their big cage? And also, should I wait until they are a little more tame to take them or go ahead as soon as I can get them in?
I use a very small travel cage to transport my lovies to the vet. http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444178 0170&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302025488&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023691&bmUID=1144852785585&itemNo=2&In=Bird&N=2025488&Ne=2 I usually clip a small millet spray to the cage and attach a small water bottle too. I only use a water bottle when we go to the vet. As far as "when" to take them, I'd go ahead and do it now. They will get stressed from the visit whether it's now or later, so I'd just get it over with now. Also, if there's any health issue, you'll know now. I took my Molly in to the vet the first week I got him and I'm glad I did. He had an E-Coli bacteria infection and it could've been fatal if I had not taken him. It was not something that was visible and it did show up in the Grams Stain test the vet ran. :2cents:

[fpmeehan]

Regarding your comment: the man sent a container of premium cockatiel food and I put some apple peices in a bowl for them.

You might also begin adding new food to their existing seed diet. My lovebirds enjoy broccoli alot! I hang it from their cage and they tear it apart and make a real mess of it, but they're getting their vitamins from it. Also, I offer chopped boiled eggs, greens such as dandelions, chard, bok choy. You might inquire about Beak Appetit online or cook up some barley, lentils, peas, brown rice and serve it with their seeds.

The main thing is you want your birds to get a variety of foods that offer vitamins and minerals to keep them healthy. This will ensure less veterinary costs in the future. Your concern for them comes across, and it's nice to know that you want to do what's best for them. They're worth the trouble because when you look at how pretty their colors are and how affectionate they can be, it's worth all your love and effort.

With regard to your question: Well they do act like they pick at each other and get really loud, so I was just wondering if they actually are fighting or is it just their way of communicating?

The birds may be competing with each other and if you take them out one by one (and I had to seclude myself with each of them one at a time in the bathroom where they couldn't call out to each other and respond) and hold, kiss and talk with it, gradually you'll develop more trust with it. They require time and attention.

Good luck and wishing happy times ahead for you.:happy:

[Janna]

I got them a vet app. for next Tues. I went to Petsmart and got a small bird cage for the trip. Now...when it comes time to take them how do I switch them from the big cage to the little? When I put my hand in just to change food and water their flying from one side to the other as far away from me...is there a certain way to go about this? And i'm worried I might hurt one, their such small babies! I'm just so excited about finding out more on them like what sex are they so that we can give them proper names and hopefully there healthy.....thank you all for being so helpful and getting me on the right track with my new lovie babies:D I'll be sure to update on how our vet app. goes! Now i'm off to post some new pics of them now that the box is gone and they can be seen!!!