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linda040899
06-17-2006, 07:37 AM
The following is a cross post from Bird Breeder-Hobbyist:

Rat Study Shows Dirty Better Than Clean
Jun 16 5:53 PM US/Eastern
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By SETH BORENSTEIN
AP Science Writer
WASHINGTON

Gritty rats and mice living in sewers and farms seem to have healthier immune systems than their squeaky clean cousins that frolic in cushy antiseptic labs, two studies indicate. The lesson for humans: Clean living may make us sick.

The studies give more weight to a 17-year-old theory that the sanitized Western world may be partly to blame for soaring rates of human allergy and asthma cases and some autoimmune diseases, such as Type I diabetes and rheumatoid arthritis. The theory, called the hygiene hypothesis, figures that people's immune systems aren't being challenged by disease and dirt early in life, so the body's natural defenses overreact to small irritants such as pollen.

The new studies, one of which was published Friday in the peer reviewed Scandinavian Journal of Immunology, found significant differences in the immune systems between euthanized wild and lab rodents.

When the immune cells in the wild rats are stimulated by researchers, "they just don't do anything they sit there; if you give them same stimulus to the lab rats, they go crazy," said study co-author Dr. William Parker, a Duke University professor of experimental surgery. He compared lab rodents to more than 50 wild rats and mice captured and killed in cities and farms.

Also, the wild mice and rats had as much as four times higher levels of immunoglobulins, yet weren't sick, showing an immune system tuned to fight crucial germs, but not minor irritants, Parker said. He said what happened in the lab rats is what likely occurs in humans: their immune systems have got it so cushy they overreact to smallest of problems.

"Your immune system is like the person who lives in the perfect house and has all the food they want, you're going to start worrying about the little things like someone stepping on your flowers," Parker said.

Challenged immune systems _ such as kids who grow up with two or more pets _ don't tend to develop as many allergies, said Dr. Stanley Goldstein, director of Allergy & Asthma Care of Long Island.

Parker said his study has drawbacks because he can't be sure that the age of the wild and lab rodents are equivalent, although he estimates the ages based on weight. He also could not control what happened in the past to the wild rats to see if they had unusual diseases before being captured and killed.

It would have been more useful had Parker studied extremely young wild rodents because, according to the hygiene hypothesis, that's when the protection from dirty living starts, said Dr. Stuart Levy, director of the Center for Adaptation Genetics and Drug Resistance at Tufts University.

Human epidemiological studies have long given credence to the hygiene theory, showing that allergy and asthma rates were higher in the cleaner industrialized areas than in places such as Africa. Parker's studies, looking at animal differences, may eventually help scientists find when, where and how environmental exposure help protect against future allergies and immune disorders, said Goldstein, and Dr. Jeffrey Platt of the Mayo Clinic in Minn., both of whom were not part of Parker's studies.

Parker said he hopes to build a 50-foot artificial sewer for his next step, so that he could introduce the clean lab rats to an artificial dirty environment and see how and when the immunity was activated.

That may be the biggest thing to come out of the wild and lab rodent studies, Platt said: "Then all of a sudden it becomes possible to expose people to the few things (that exercise the immune system) and gives them the benefit of the dirty environment without having to expose them to the dirt."

BarbieH
06-17-2006, 08:32 AM
That is *very* interesting. I definitely think there is a link between robust (or under-developed) immune systems and certain types of diseases. I don't know if asthma is one of them. There are so many factors to consider: today's more sedentary lifestyle for kids, their more indoor activities, generally weaker lung capacity.

There are also studies showing that urban kids and adults are more prone to asthma now -- again, we have sedentary indoor lifestyles plus increased outdoor pollution.

I'm familiar with the study about kids exposed early to allergen-triggers being less likely to develop asthma. The study was specific to cat dander/saliva. It showed that the immune systems of children who lived with a cat developed antibodies, which eventually reached a critical mass -- a chart showing it looked like a Bell curve -- and down the other side of the bell, the allergic response dropped off considerably.

The kids in the study were not symptomatic if they lived with a cat in the first years of their lives; they did develop antibodies, but no symptoms. Eventually their bodies seemed to recognize cats as not being an immune threat.

One of the writers of the study hypothesized that this could be the reason they see so few cases of asthma among rural kids on farms. But there again, you have a different lifestyle that encourages better lung capacity.

I'm a firm believer in having a robust immune system. :) I'm a little surprised that they put asthma into this group, though. There seem to be a lot more variable where asthma is concerned.

linda040899
06-17-2006, 09:02 AM
Barb,
I, personally, grew up on a chicken farm. My dad had 40,000 chickens and we always had cats, dogs (and whatever else happened to wander onto the farm) around. Being around chickens isn't necessarily the cleanest place in the world to be. The only allergies I have are to certain drugs and I have no other medical problems that I know of. I've always felt that too clean is not good, as there's nothing to stimulate the immune system. This seems to apply to humans, as well as aminals.

I thought this was worth sharing with everyone!

Janie
06-17-2006, 12:34 PM
Linda, this is SOOOOO interesting! Does this mean I don't have to clean the bird room but once a month now? ;) Seriously, I know that Oliver lived in filthy conditions for years. His cage was never taken out, broken down, and cleaned and probably wasn't even spot cleaned more that a few times in all the years he lived in it. I do NOT recommend that, of course, but I do think Oliver built up a heavy duty immune system because of it. It's a miracle the filth didn't kill him but it must be the old saying, "that which doesn't kill you only makes you stronger!" I would also guess that dirty conditions would affect some birds in the worst way and they would not survive them.

I've read that the anti-bacterial soaps are not good on a daily basis. We're washing away all bacteria and our immune system has no way to deal with it when we do come in contact with bad bacteria. At my age, that would not make much difference since I've lived around "stuff" for years (I grew up on a farm and my mother never disinfected the counter tops after she cut up raw chicken :eek: ) but I know that my children have not been exposed to many of the things I lived with every day at their age.

Very interesting article! Thanks!

butterfly1061
06-17-2006, 07:40 PM
Janie & I have talked about this many times. I keep my birdroom clean, but not squeaky clean. I guess it's kinda like when you have your first child, everything is squeaky clean. The second comes along and the 5 second rule (blow off the dirt instead of washing) applies :rolleyes:

linda040899
06-17-2006, 08:38 PM
Jackie,
The only thing I have to be really careful about in my birdroom is seed falling behind/under the cages. It can create a real mess if water happens to get under the walls during a hard, blowing rain and there's seed on the floor. I try very hard to keep everything picked up. Otherwise I have an instant recipe for mold and mildew! The water dishes are cleaned daily and completely changed out every 4-5 days. The dirty ones get run through either a dishwasher cycle or soaked for a while in 10% bleach solution, rinsed well and dried before they are put away for the next use. I have 2 complete sets for my aviary. One set is always clean and waiting. :)

butterfly1061
06-17-2006, 10:02 PM
I guess most people would think mine is squeaky clean. I dunno. I clean all dishes (handwash) and vaccum everyday. I have two sets of seed dishes, but only one set of water dishes. I change the paper towels in the tray every two or three days and the grills get cleaned almost every weekend. I spray with Camacide every month in the summer and every couple months the rest of the year. Is that squeaky clean? :whistle:

BarbieH
06-18-2006, 10:16 AM
Jackie, I think you and I are on roughly the same cleaning schedule. :) I do vacuum every day but it's more for our sake than the birds', to prevent a pest problem. (The birds are pests in their own right, but that's another story. ;))

linda040899
06-18-2006, 10:41 AM
Jackie,
You, me and Barb are doing things pretty much the same way. Squeaky clean is constantly disinfecting because you don't want germs around your birds. I clean trays every single night for my pet birds. My aviary trays are vacuumed nightly but I pressure wash them maybe twice/yr. I use Camicide all year round, mostly because our weather here is never cold enough to kill all those pesky crawly non-feathered creatures!!!!!!

Janie
06-18-2006, 10:51 AM
Like Barb, I vacuum every day for the sake of US and especially my dog who is always looking for something good to eat that they have dropped to the floor :D My cages are easily rolled out onto my back deck so I do power wash every other week to once a month. That darn play gym could stand to be power washed every single day but it usually gets washed once a week. Since mine are out of their cages more than they are in (during the day) their cages are the cleanest thing in the room! To keep their room squeaky clean would require more hours than there are in a day. I am amazed that three little birds who total about 160 grams can make such a mess! :lol

kimsbirds
06-18-2006, 06:55 PM
I'm not an overly obsessive person but I like my bird room clean. I use a shopvac daily on the floor, behind the cages and on the trays of each cage. I switch out dishes daily (when one set is being used, the other set is in the dishwasher). I "flick" poops off perches and toys daily and soak them every couple of weeks in bleach/water and air dry. The cages get pressure washed every couple of months at the car wash bay, but I hose/scrape down the grills as needed (especially during nesty poopin' time) Toys don't last long enough to clean them in a sink/dishwasher, so they get replaced probably monthly - every 6 weeks??
There's nothing worse than a floor covered in seed hulls or flung pellets or veggie bits with the juices sucked out by birds...so the floors are my biggest issues LOL

Kimmie

linda040899
06-18-2006, 07:21 PM
Kim,
Floors are big issues with me, too! I hate wearing shoes around the house and stepping on seeds/seed hulls is none too comfortable....... :happy:

Buy A Paper Doll
06-18-2006, 08:34 PM
If I don't sweep the floor in my bird room (which doubles as my living room ;) )every day, it becomes a crunchy mess from all the seed hulls and stuff. I just have the 2 birds but my darling Melody just LOVES to get in her dish and kick seed out of the cage. :roll:

Kathryn
06-20-2006, 08:48 PM
Great discussion. When my daughter was a baby, her doctor suggested I lighten up on the Mrs. Clean routine and let her become exposed to a little dirt...:rofl: She hasn't had anything worse than a cold...she's now 27.

I'm vacuuming every other day now that molt is over. The cages are cleaned daily, water dishes are scrubbed and seed blown. I use dishwasher or bleach once a week.

Stepping on seed hulls can also be dangerous when barefoot. Just had a fluid cyst removed from the sole/arch of my foot. Doc seems to think I punctured the sole somehow and it caused the cyst to grow...could it have been a seed hull?;)