When do I know if they have bonded?

[krizzteena]

Hi Everyone,

Okay so LuLu I have had for about 4-5 months and I introduced KeKe this week ( I know, I know I should have quarantined...please dont send me to the dogs! They both appeared healthy to me and KeKe was from a home.)

From what I gather already I probably should done this slower but I didnt know at the time. The first day they were in thier own cages and sat side by side on thier perches in thier respective cages. They played together that night and fought a bit. The next morning they played together and each sat on my shoulder and didnt fight . I put them in LuLu cage together. KeKe has this platic box toy that hanges from a chain and has holes on all side and she loves it ( I am guessing because she feels safe in it) so I put that in too. They have chased each other around the cage and had a few squabbles and at day three they each ate and drank at separate times and werent chasing each other ( the first day LuLu did the chasing the 2nd day keke did the chasing). So things seemd to be getting better.

Well yesterday ( day 5) I changed the cage around when i cleaned it. I thought maybe I should remove KeKes box as she spent a lot of time in it and its hard to keep clean. I added a 2nd perch up top( so they both had one) and she went right to the top of the cage and stayed on top of the highest toy so...it appears they are working out the dominance thing all over again and I am back at square one and they are chasing each other around the cage. I relented and put Kekes box back in and it is on the upper left side of the cage and LuLus perch that she is always on is on the upper right side. The cage is 36"x24x24 so it is a good size.

I am obviously new to lovies and new to this intro thing but how long should it take for them to get used to each other? what signs should I looks for? How do I know if they have bonded? I know with cats and dogs they battle it out and figure it out on thier own over a certian period of time ( dominance) & I know that there is a possibility it wont happen but when do I stop trying? Any tips or hints would be greatly appreciated. Just not sure what to look for as good signs and what signs are the big red stop sign!

[Janie]

Kris, unfortunately with birds one battle can quickly cause the death of one of the two. I don't have much experience with introducing a new bird because in my case I already had one and then got two more (clutch mates) at the same time. After the quarantine I did have them sleeping in cages that were side by side with the brothers together and Oliver in his own cage. So, they "saw" each other a lot but the three weren't out together for about 1 week after that. I stood inches from them because I was so afraid one of the younger two might hurt Oliver. There was a tiny bit of chasing but more curious interaction that anything else and I was very, very careful to be sure neither came close to biting Oliver. They did get along amazingly well but it was still another 5 or 6 months before I felt comfortable enough to let all three out together in their bird room (while I was out of the room). When they are caged, it's still the two brothers in their cage and Oliver in his. Oliver doesn't seem to mind them going in and out of his cage during the day and he'll also go into theirs sometimes but he would not welcome either of them sleeping in his cage with him.

Personally, w/o knowing the sex of these two that you have, it's hard to say how well their going to get along but I would slow down the time out together and don't take your eyes off them while they are out. Are they clipped? That might help. I would also recommend a vet check for the new bird.

[Rubygem]

You’re lucky one of them isn't already dead. :omg: I would separate them back out, in their own cages, and let the cages be side by side. When they are preening in between the bars, and feeding each other between the bars, then I would allow them to spend some time together in a neutral territory. A lot of times the birds will know if they like or don’t like each other very quickly, sometimes it takes months. But if they are chasing each other around the cage then this is not a good sign, and if one is in a mood, and catches up to the other you will be back to owning just one lovie. :(

Even when we allow two lovies to start spending time together, we normally separate them during the time we are not around to supervise them, including the nights. Because I know my birds, I normally go with my instincts of when I can allow them to be in the same cage over night and for the rest of the time. So far I have been very lucky, because I have been able to watch which birds are bonding with which birds. I have gotten “proven” breeders, and watching their behavior, I have repaired them. I let them pick their mates as long as it is some where close to the color mutations I’m looking at breeding. Sometimes if they pick a mate that I’m not looking at breeding that particular color mutations, then I let them stay together, (because when they pick their own mates they normally make better breeders) and then sell them once they have been proven. I don’t like to pass my headaches to other breeders unless they are experienced, because experienced breeders might be able to provide something the birds need more than what I can give them (like a room with less breeders…:lol:). This comes down to me saying if I were you I would separate them back out, and watch them, and when they seem to call to each other, and want to be with each other, this is the time I would let them be back together slowly. :)

Jeanette
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[Janie]

All-righty, that information is far better than what I offered! Rubygem is the breeder I got my two brothers from and she has introduced far more birds than I have. I was careful because Oliver was my top priority so I hope that Lulu will also be a top priority for you. You would not want to see either bird hurt and it could happen if you aren't very careful with introductions and take it slow and easy.

[goldnyght]

You might want to check both your birds for missing feathers, bite marks, bloody feathers, and anything else out of the ordinary. The first time I let my two out together (After slightly less than a month of quarentine) I didn't see them fighting or anything, but when I held Pete the next day to play with him, a lot of his forehead feathers were gone and it looked slightly bloody. Then, the next day, I left my boyfriend to watch them for a few minutes and was called back to the room by a horrible screaming: the new bird had Pete by the foot and was jerking and biting.

They are completely seperate now, and I've made a deal with the petstore to trade the new one in for another lovie (This behavior is alarming to me, and my baby comes first)

[Katy]

I've made a deal with the petstore to trade the new one in for another lovie (This behavior is alarming to me, and my baby comes first)



That's what I thought about doing when I realized that my two were fighting. But I love both of my birds, so that wouldn't be fair. They do occasionally preen and feed each other, but the still squabble too much for my liking. So I seperate them during the day, but I let them out to play at the same time. I also let them sleep together. They seem to be much more friendly with each other now that they have some time to themselves.

[goldnyght]

this bird has not only been vicious to my lovebird, but also bites anyone and anything that happens to come near its cage. Hard. Breaks skin.

[krizzteena]

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Last night I couldnt justify leaving them together any longer as they wouldnt stop with the chasing and LuLu was getting downright nasty . I separated them out and now everything is much better. I am sure they and I both slept better.:wink: I do have thier cages side by side and they dont seem to mind that. In fact they both sleep at the same time, preen at the same time and play at the same time. So I think althought I am not able to cage them together they will provide some company to each other and that I am ok with as this is why I brought KeKe home to begin with. LuLu does seem more content and quiter now that she has a buddy in the same room. She is definetly the dominant one of the two but I should have known that when she demanded constant attention during every waking daylight hour! ;) But I do love them both and find it interesting that they are so similar yet SO different.:lol

[Janie]

Kris, as you said, even though they may not ever be caged together, they can be good company for each other in separate cages that are close to each other. :) And.....as time goes by, you might find that they will get along. Fingers crossed for you. :D

[LauraO]

this bird has not only been vicious to my lovebird, but also bites anyone and anything that happens to come near its cage. Hard. Breaks skin.

This is exactly why it's never good to go out and buy birds on the spur of the moment. Now that you've brought this lovie into your home, it's really your obligation to work with him/her to make him a happy member of your family. To just throw away a lovie just cause they are difficult is not fair. Not only that, but there is no guarantee the next lovie is going to be any more friendly than this one. Of course, Pete is your top priority but it's really your's, and all us lovie owners fault when something happens between our birds.

Please, do not throw away this lovie you brought home. These creatures are not throw away pets. Each is an individual and has individual needs, and it's our job to figure it all out.

To end, I suggest you read the saying on the bottom of Linda's signature, which reads something like there are no mean birds just misunderstood ones!

[Janie]

This is exactly why it's never good to go out and buy birds on the spur of the moment. Now that you've brought this lovie into your home, it's really your obligation to work with him/her to make him a happy member of your family.

Laura, well said and you know I agree with you. Think before you buy or accept a bird or any pet into your home. Once it's yours, it's yours and it did not choose you, you chose it.

[goldnyght]

the bird was considered, and very sweet at the store, but I can't afford a bird that bites in the house with a boy that has kicked the cat for hissing at him. I'd feel horrible if I found out she'd been shaken/smacked/anything else to death. He has a horrible temper, and she does too. The house is just as dangerous for her while she's like this as she is to us.

[LauraO]

No offense, but if there is a child that is that much a danger to pets then there should be no pets in the house. If Pete is of your highest concern then you must know he's not safe either.

I still stand by my statement. Not only does the bird belong with you, and both you and this "boy" working with him/her, but there is no guarantee there won't be the same, or worse problem with the new bird.