Dog owners: Need your help!

[Buy A Paper Doll]

On Sunday I became the foster momma to a 5 year old spaniel mix. She is my mother's dog, but Mom just moved into an assisted living facility and was not able to take the dog with her. The long and short of it is that I did not have the heart to give her away after all of the love and companionship she has offered my mom over the years. In spite of incompatible pets (that would be M&M!), hubby's allergies, and my better judgement, the dog is now at my feet as I type this.

Yeah, I know. I'm a softy. Or maybe "sucker" is more appropriate. She's going to live with me until another family member is in a position to take her.

My question is, how do I adjust her diet? She's VERY overweight because Mom had been feeding her a ton of people food. The transition to dry dog food is not going well. Could be because she's adjusting to her new surroundings. Could be that she misses her mama. Could be that IAMs just plain doesn't taste as good as Stouffer's TV dinners.

Most of the time she will not eat it. I'm following the package directions to mix her old food with her new food to gradually adjust her to the new diet. Obviously I'm not going to heat up TV dinners for her. I did try mixing the new stuff with the wet food she was eating; she still turns her nose up. She's only eating a fraction of what the package says she should be eating.

My "dog people" relatives told me to take a tough love approach: "Offer food at breakfast and at dinner, but take the bowl away after 30 minutes. She'll eat when she gets hungry." Even though she obviously could stand to miss a meal or two, this seems so MEAN! You can't DO that to birds, so why would you do it to a dog??

Any dog owners care to comment? Please??

[Janie]

Jennifer, "do as I say, not as I do" applies to my answer! I am the worst about allowing my dog a bite (or bowl!) of whatever I'm eating and it is the WORST thing for them. I have been known to go into the bathroom, close the door, to eat a bowl of cereal w/o my dog begging. With every dog I have, I swear I'll never do it again, feed human food....but I do. Anyway, I think the tough love approach is fine. She will not starve to death if you do it gradually. I really like the idea of offering dry food and then mixing the wet food that she's used to in with that. My dog (12 1/2) isn't crazy for her dry food. I do give it to her every morning and some days she amazes me and actually eats some of it. Late in the afternoon I add one can of "Caesars" wet food to it. She loves that and will eat all of it and if she's hungry enough she'll finish off the dry food, too. As long as you are still offering her the kind of wet food she is used to, you can mix it with the dry and she WILL eat it if she's really hungry. It is so hard to get even a couple of pounds off an over-weight dog, I know. It might take months to even slightly change her eating habits but it can be done. I've gotten 2 pounds off my 20 lb. Sheltie in the last years and I swear it was harder on me than her. I don't know why I've had such a hard time keeping my dogs trim. I am as thin as a rail and have little interest in food but I have a terrible time resisting a begging dog! :rolleyes:

Hang in there! You are such a good daughter for taking her!:grouphug:

[Rikki]

:lol You are a softy, but that is good. I have 4 dogs and one is a very fat old one. but she has slimmed down and that is good for her health. she got fat because I free fed her dry food all day. she ate and the other 3 didn't so much. Now I put x amount of food down twice a day and that is all she gets. She has lost weight and is healthier. so, yeah, I agree with the relatives. Put some food down at set times a day and pick it up after a half an hour. She isn't starving is she. I like how you are changing things gradually. I bet part of her not eating is her change in living conditions. I am sure she misses your mom. I am also sure she will do fine with your diet change. And how nice of you to have her there.

[Buy A Paper Doll]

When I say she's overweight, I mean, she's OVERWEIGHT!!! She should weigh just under 35 pounds. She weighed 46 1/2 pounds when I took her to be groomed.

Can you say, FAT DOG???

I'm hoping that portion control, no people food, and 30 minute walks twice a day would help her lose weight.

[bird_luver24]

Jennifer,
If I was in your situation then I would just keep on trying the Old food with the Kibble. Most dogs do a transition within a week to two week period but, I would just give her a little bit more time. This is a WHOLE different thing for her. With other dogs they are still eating the same kind of food "Kibble" Just changing brands. If I were you I would give her plenty of exercise with atleast decently healthy ""People Food"" There is a diet called the barf diet for dogs where you feed on "Bones and Raw Foods" This way she is still getting healthy food and making the transition to Kibble. Go to Google and just type in BARF Diet and you should get tons of info on it. You wouldnt have to follow the diet exactly but, Just some untill you can get her switched to Kibble. I also wouldnt push her to exercise to much at first since I am sure she is not use to it but, maybe a good 5 minute walk the first time and just work your way up if you have the time. This way she will be healthy all around. I hope some of what I said has helped you!!!...If you have anymore questions about the Diet or anything then let me know...Wouldnt mind a bit to help you!!

[kimsbirds]

This is actually my line of work. I've been an animal nutritionist for 16+ yrs. So.....let me start by saying, KUDOS to you for taking in your Mom's doggy!!
We've just adopted my sister's 9yr old miniature poodle who is in ROUGH shape, so I know how it feels to take on yet ANOTHER furry family member:)
Any and all food transitions should be handled slowly and gradually.
With one exception.
Transitioning a dog from table food to DOG food !!
First and foremost - check the condition of the dogs' mouth and teeth. Refusal to eat hard food is indicative of mouth and gum disease and periodontal disease and abscesses. If you see extreme red swollen gums, very thick brown tartar on the tooth surface and teeth that don't even LOOK like teeth anymore, please contact the vet and have a scaling done under anaesthetic. This may involve removal of teeth too damaged to save. Once the mouth feels better, you can introduce hard foods again. Your vet will advise further depending on his preference.

Choose a meat-based dry kibble in a small size piece. Iams is not meat based, but rather grain based (total grains by weight exceeds total meats by weight). Make sure you choose one that is labelled 'weight control' or 'diet'. Premium brands include Natural Balance, Nutro Max, Nutro Natural Choice, Nutrience, Nutro Ultra, Solid Gold. Small stores managed by owners generally carry better brands. You could ask the ones in your area for suggestions.

Eliminate ALL treats, scraps, biscuits etc from the house, leaving ONLY the dog food. This way nobody is tempted to "feed the poor dog cuz he's starving!"
Measure out an amount of food recommended on the bag. If it says "2-3 1/2 cups" choose the lower end ratio. Divide that into 2 equal portions...and this is where your tough-love advice comes in...
Place the bowl down in a chosen quiet spot in the kitchen for the dogs' food, and let the dog know that it's there. DRY. Not moistened, not added to canned food, just DRY. Leave it for a period of 30 minutes. Remove it and cover it up so the air doesn't oxidize the preservatives. Wait until the next scheduled feed time and again, place the food down for 30 mins.

Don't be alarmed if this dog won't eat ANYTHING for several days. As long as it is drinking fresh water frequently, wait for TRUE HUNGER to kick in. Believe me, it will kick in! This dog has been in the habit of eating for the sheer joy and pleasure, not depending on the body's natural triggers for nutrition. Unfortunately, you might find the dog's stomach acids quite noisy at times. Acids break down the nutrients in the food, and if the tummy is empty, those acids continue working. Gurgling and squelching noises are normal. We sometimes find that our little doggy vomits small amounts of yellow foamy stomach acid (bile) if she goes too long without food in her system. Completely expected, no cause for alarm.

Dogs are wired internally NOT to let themselves starve. As long as you continue to offer a nutritious meal daily without treats or table foods to fill the gap, your doggy will eventually act like a doggy. Molly, our new one, did NOT eat a dang thang for 3 1/2 days. She acted like the world was against her and wallowed for days. The one night I sat here with her bowl of food beside me and she actually took A piece out...ONE PIECE...and crunched it up, was the day I did a happy dance LOL Since then, she eats consistently and regularly. Her stools are well formed and habitual. The vet can't believe her body and skin/hair condition. Needless to say, it makes me proud. Many of my clients at the store report back to me that it only took a day or two for the dog to realize that what they put down for him/her was ALL that was going to be offered. Our Molly was a tough case, but generally, its a day or two.

Once your dog is on a dry-food only diet, you'll want to keep an eye on weight and make sure it doesnt come off too quickly. Some people have to tweek the amount of food offered, depending on body weight. If there's no loss within 3-4 weeks, knock the meal portions back by 1/8 cup per day, etc. If weight comes off too quickly, add a small portion to each day's ration. You want to see a loss of no more than 4-5% of the dogs' body weight per month. ie: a 46 lb dog should not lose more than 1.5 - 2.3 lbs per month. You can see this is going to take some time.

Encourage the dog to be active. Walking, tugging rope, chasing a ball etc. Keep the sessions very short at first as the body is out of shape.

Ack, I sound like a teacher... but I hope you get the idea LOL

I'm always available via email to help out..let me know :)

Kimmie

[bird_luver24]

Kimmie,
Wonderful Advice!!! :D

[Janie]

Kimmie, I've just mailed you a package.....Chelsea, my Sheltie! Please get her slimmed down and return her to me. I'll pay shipping both ways! :D

Seriously, GREAT ADVICE and a plan that can be followed! :)

[kimsbirds]

LOL Janie...you would probably be surprised to hear just how often I get that question asked of me ! People wanting me to take their dogs home, train them, slim them down, stop them from nipping, peeing in the house etc...then give them back LOL
Hopefully after 16 years of birdie experience, I'll be able to pipe off instruction like I did with the dog issue.
Knowledge is power and experience is priceless.
And honestly, 99% of basic issues like training, eating habits are common sense if you stop and think.
Anyway, glad to help and I hope to pick up Chelsea next Monday !!!:rofl: :rofl:

[linda040899]

Kim,
I'm in the process of adopting a Pembroke Welsh Corgi named Sam. He's about 5 lbs overweight and I'm following the same plan you just outlined. Sam loves food......any kind of food and I'm assuming that his former owners gave him whatever he wanted. I learned a long time ago that there's my food and his food. Never does my food find its way to his mouth.

I've got to admit that he came to me with perfect manners! No chewing, no aggression; he didn't even know how to play. Rescue and I are assuming that he belonged to an older couple with limited mobility so he never learned. I've had him about a month and he just picked up a few of the toys that I bought for him for the first time last week. Since I have a large, fenced in back yard, he can run around and play with us when we get the chance to go out back. Funny thing, too, is that he's a fairly young dog. He's microchipped (chip owner read Humane Society of Michigan) but his actual owner has not been found. Hey, their loss is my gain. He's a lovely companion to have around!

[Tango's_Mom]

I'm not an expert but have worked with dogs for a long time, this is based on personal experience, and I will not judge that other methods suggested by others are more or less valid, this is simply a suggestion based on personal experience and advice I have recieved from others who are knowledgable on the subject. My suggestion (after making sure the teeth are looked after), would be to stop feeding people food right away, I would start with a high quality canned food (not good for teeth and I normally recommend staying away from wet food unless it's needed for health reasons or the only way to get the dog to eat, but under the circumstances) I like Hills personally, I used to feed IAMS, but became concerned about the quality when they expanded to selling in grocery stores and walmart, also at that time all 3 vets that I work with, (2 different clinics) stopped recommending it due to similar concerns over quality; but it's up to you, in any case I would start with the wet food, (given her weight I would go with a weight control formula) and start gradually mixing in increasing amounts of the dry food, until you can start to phase the wet food out completely. My dog has weight that is difficult to control and when he was younger he got alot of table scraps, on top of his dry food, it was easier to get him off them as he always had dry dog food, so I didn't need to teach him to eat dog food, when he got a little older he gained some weight, although he never got to be more than slightly overweight, I had a lot of success reducing his weight with hills w/d and he now maintains his weight well on hills t/d (should mention that both these diets are only available through your veterinarian, but there are high quality alternatives available in quality petstores)

[kimsbirds]

Linda
How luck a dog Sam is !!!
I don't know how you do it all, but I admire you immensely! Your dedication to your pets is amazing and the world needs more owners such as yourself:)
How are Sams teeth? He might be a stubborn switch, but if you stick to your plan, he'll be much healthier in the long run. Make sure you choose a kibble size appropriate for his body size. Lots of little dogs prefer a small or mini bite sized food. Our Molly prefers hers for "toy dogs"...silly fussy girl...but hey, she's eating it fabulously! She's no toy btw...she's a miniature LOL
I do hope Sam's weight loss and body conditioning is successful. Remember to start him on small walks and limited bursts of running.
Let me know if I can help out :)

Kimmie

PS. Tango's mom offers an alternative as far as food type. Canned food is sometimes more accepted by a fussy dog transitioning from table scraps. This would be a decision totally up to you. Her method is just as acceptable and I am all for whatever works. The main goal here is to get the dog onto DOG FOOD. It's a personal choice if you want to go with tinned food, or prefer to switch to dry kibble. As long as you choose a reputable brand, the dog receives his nutrition!

[Bella]

You have been given great advice here.

The dog will not starve itself.

You do need to introduce the new food gradually or you risk stomach upsets and diarrhoea in the house ain't no fun!

Portions shown on dog food packages tend to be way over what a dog needs, so don't pay too much attention to them.

Once you get the new food established, if the weight loss is not going well then try substituting cooked or canned (no salt) green beans for some of the kibble. It has few calories and will make the dog feel full on less food.

If the kibble is not proving popular you could "garnish" it a little. I add low fat plain yogurt or cottage cheese to my pug's kibble in the evening and he loves it. But once you have found a good quality food, stick to it, and stick to your guns. It is very easy to make a rod for your own back if you give in to thinking that the dog doesn't like the food and try all sorts of fancy alternatives, or try to hand feed.

Good luck.

[Buy A Paper Doll]

Thanks, all, for the advice!!!

[Tango's_Mom]

You have been given great advice here.


Portions shown on dog food packages tend to be way over what a dog needs, so don't pay too much attention to them.



Thanks for reminding me Bella, I forgot to mention, the one thing that annoys me with Hills is the recommended portions are HUGE, for example, my dog is 9, his entire adult life he has maintained a good weight on about 2-2.5 cups a day of whatever food we have been feeding, the hills feeding guide for both the w/d and t/d recommend feeding in excess of five cups a day, so you have to use your judgement and then adjust it depending on how the dog responds as far as weight goes.

[LauraO]

I'm in the process of adopting a Pembroke Welsh Corgi named Sam.

:omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: Linda, this is my absolute dream dog. I would probably have one if they weren't so difficult to find on the island. The only place that has them is a pet shop that has "puppymill" dogs and I refuse to buy one of those. I think it's especially great you are adopting Sam:D .

[rigidneophyte]

Ok I may be young and can't have a dog in my current situation but I was a vet tech for 5 months and i'm currently going to school to be a certified veterinary technician. Your answer is plain and simple.

GO TO THE VET!!!

Your vet can give you tips on how to switch your pup over, plus give her a diet, this usually means they'll give you a perscription diet if your pup is as over weight as you say she is. There are tons of foods out there and IAMS is a pretty good one, but not the best, you'll need to put the pup on a perscription diet. You can't do that alone.

again, this is from a former/studying vet tech, dogs are my specialty!! I know what im talking about!


Also, Kimsbirds has really good advice, however you must get the dog checked out by a vet before you do ANYTHING!! They know more about dogs and believe me I've seen it the smallest thing can cause a dog to not eat. Infact a dog not eating can be the dogs way of saying "Hey I'm in pain!" It's not always them being fussy!

[linda040899]

How are Sams teeth? He might be a stubborn switch, but if you stick to your plan, he'll be much healthier in the long run. Make sure you choose a kibble size appropriate for his body size. Lots of little dogs prefer a small or mini bite sized food. Our Molly prefers hers for "toy dogs"...silly fussy girl...but hey, she's eating it fabulously! She's no toy btw...she's a miniature LOL
I do hope Sam's weight loss and body conditioning is successful. Remember to start him on small walks and limited bursts of running.
Let me know if I can help out
Kim,
Sam was fully vetted before he came here. He has 1 broken canine but it doesn't seem to bother him. Otherwise, his teeth are in great shape. I'm using Exclusive Chicken and Rice, switched from ProPlan Chicken and Rice. Pieces of food are just about the same size and Sam has no problems gobbling them down! I get his food/water ready when I let him out. When he's ready to come back in, I make sure all doors (2) between outside and the ktichen are open. Sam comes flying through the doors and doesn't stop until he reaches his food! Those little legs of his just fly!! I had to trim the hair between his toes so now he has even better running traction.......

Sam loves to go on walks, but I keep them fairly short. With the hot temperatures here in FL right now, he's ready to come back after about 10 minutes.

[linda040899]

Laura,
State wide here in FL, Suncoast Corgi Rescue handles about 50 dogs/yr. I was talking to one of their members this afternoon and they are up to 50 right now! He said there are a lot that they can't get from shelters because some of the shelters only hold them for 3 days before they euthanize. The number of dogs/cats that end up in shelters is staggering, which is why I prefer to adopt rather than purchase a dog. Every dog I've ever had has either been from rescue or from animal control. All have been spayed, as I don't wish to contribute to the ongoing problem.

[Buy A Paper Doll]

So wonderful that you had a chance to add a 4-legged critter to your flock, Linda!

An update on my end: Miss Maggie has decided that she will eat the "lite" dry dog food from the vet's office, as long as I mix it with just enough wet dog food to coat the little chunks. It seems like a suitable compromise for a little dog who's had so many changes recently.

She'll eat the dry food if that's all there is, but she makes such a big deal about it that I have to laugh at her. She looks in the bowl, looks at me, looks back in the bowl, sighs, eats a little bit, glares at me, drinks water loudly, looks back at me for a reaction. Then she eats a little bit more, glares at me, and slurps some more water. Throw in a few more heavy sighs and you get the idea. This continues until the bowl is empty. Maggie, I get it: It's dry.

My niece (a vet tech) is pretty confident that this is primarily a diet/exercise issue, and honestly, so am I. Her momma took her to the vet for her yearly exam in February and everything was fine. Two weeks later her momma fell very ill and never recovered cognitively. From there, the daily walks stopped and the dog was overfed. I'm going to have her weighed again on the same scale in a few weeks and if she hasn't lost any weight at all, I will schedule an appointment for her.

[linda040899]

Jennifer,
Jordy was like that when I switched him from Chicken and Rice to Lamb and Rice. He pouted for about 24 hrs and then he realized that if he didn't want to be hungry, he'd best settle for eating what I put in his food bowl! He finally got used to the change and he did very well as a result. We can be just as stubborn as they can.......

I'm glad to hear that Maggie is coming around. This has got to be hard on her, too!

[kimsbirds]

Thanks for the update Jennifer!
Yup, Linda hit the nail on the head, they CAN be dang stubborn!
Perserverence is your best option, although that can be hard to stick to when they look at you with those "feed me I'm starving" eyes !!
Hope it all goes well. Once Maggie adjusts to dog food only and increased exercise, this blob in your home will be a long lost memory !
C'mon Maggie...off with it girl!

K

[Janie]

Good update, Jennifer! Hang in there.....you'll get Miss Maggie turned around and she'll adjust. :)

It is amazing how many pure bred breeds are now available through rescuse sites. I've met three Pomeranian's in the last two years and all of them came from a Pom rescuse site. :)

[BarbieH]

This thread reminds me of the "All Creature Great and Small" books by James Herriott. :) There was one story in particular, about a spoiled little Pom whose owner was a wealthy older woman; Dr. Herriott took the dog to the vet clinic for special care and boarding, which amounted to the dog being treated like a dog.

The vets in the practice all reaped the benefits of care baskets from the lady. :lol

[CaptMicha]

One other thing, changing from the foods she used to eat and the new food too quickly can make her sick.

I think you guys just about covered everything. To encourage playing in the house (excersize), try things that will appeal to her instincts like fetching or flicking a toy on the ground infront of her.

Chase her, have her chase you, etc.

[Buy A Paper Doll]

Yep, every now and then one of her dozen or so stuffed squeaky toys needs to be jumped and shaken and carried around. We play tug of war with her toys and I pretend to chase her to get the toys from her.

She also loves to wander the yard, sniffing and snuffing everything. I wait for her to get to the far corner of the yard and then I call her excitedly to get her to run to me. For a fat dog she can run pretty fast. :)

But the best exercise is the Big Happy Dance she does for me when I get home from work. I open the door, call her to me, and yell hello to the birdies through the door. Then the dog comes out onto the driveway while I get my laptop and stuff out of the trunk. I talk to her in a ridiculously excited tone of voice that probably has the neighbors thinking I'm crazy. And she wiggles her whole body, dancing and hopping and running in circles, snorting with excitement for a good 20 minutes.

Yep, that's why people get dogs, isn't it? :happy:

[rigidneophyte]

"I am I because my little dog knows me"

[ddargenio]

When I switched both my dogs from canned food to a healthier low fat dry food I found that mixing a little bit of warm low salt chicken broth onto the dry food entices them. Gives it just a little bit of flavor - just make sure it's low salt tho! Good luck!!!

[linda040899]

Chasing Sam and having Sam chase me doesn't work all that well! Sam is a Corgi and they are herding dogs. If I try to run so he will chase me, he goes into herding mode......... He's a quick little devil, too! :lol

[Kathryn]

Same thing goes for an Australian Shepard! Gracie loves to herd!
Great update on Maggie...glad to hear things are improving.

[Janie]

I have (HAD) a herding dog, too....a sheltie. She's still around but at almost 13 her herding days are over. :( In her younger years I used to tell my hubby that we needed to buy her a flock of sheep. Just for fun! :D