My dilemma.....need advice, please

[Ugerm]

....+ the story of Sebastian and Ella. I'm in a big dilemma and would really appreciate some advice.

Prepare for a long post.....

The story :) :) :)
In june I got my first pair of lovebirds, Sebastian & Ella. Although I had read a book about lovebirds prior to buing S&E I now realize that there were a few things I hadn't thought through before I brought them home. I decided to look for a pair of Fischer's lovebirds because I had read that they tend to be quieter and less aggressive than peach faced lovebirds. I only found one place that sold Fischer's, and when I got there they only had two Fischer's (S&E) sitting alone in a small cage with only one perch and no toys......and needless to say, I brought them home with me the same day.
S&E are GREAT and I love them to bits. They have been cage mates from the beginning and they are very loving and affectionate with each other. I named them after a few days - I suspected Sebastian was male and Ella female. They were were skittish and nervous for a long time and very scared of me, they obviously had not been around people much. They were on a very poor, seed only diet and didn't know how to play with toys at all. I has taken me a long, long time to get them on a healthy diet and behave like normal lovebirds (you know....active, playful, mischievous, curious, funny and destructive little creatures :)).
S&E are fully flighted and I let them out of the cage every day when I get home from work. They enjoy being out so much that the only way I can get them back in the cage is to put up a nesting box which I allow them to sleep in.

The problem:
To separate or not to separate....that's the question!:confused: :confused: :confused:
I do not want babies since I don't have any breeding experience and because I suspect that S&E are siblings from the same clutch. I had S&E DNA sexed a few monts ago, and the results were what I expected: I have a true pair. They are becoming more and more affectionate with each other and Sebastian regurgitates for Ella, and Ella is becoming a little too territorial which causes some quarrels in the cage. I try to discourage mating behaviour (they get around 11 hours of sleep at night) but it is a little difficult because the nesting box is the only way to get them back in the cage.....and this morning I caught them 'doing it'. I bought two lovebirds so that could keep each other company, but now I'm afraid I made a mistake. The thought of separating them brakes my heart :cry: because they are so sweet together , and I never planned on having two cages in my living room! I feel so guilty because I didn't see this coming.......I don't know what to do!!

What would you do :( ?? Any thoughts or advice are greatly appreciated

Ulla, Sebastian & Ella

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2282/siggy011xo4.jpg (This signature was made for me by a member of another bird forum - thanks Yevgenia :))

[zlatushka]

I know some more experienced with pairs will answer too, but I thought I'd add my two cents...

Personally, I wouldn't have the heart to split them up. I'd just leave them together. Since male+female=LOTSALOVIES, if you don't split them up, eventually, you will get eggs (well, really, you'd get eggs with a single female, too, just no chance of them being fertile.) There are things you can do to discourage egg laying, like rearranging the cage often, limiting daylight, and not providing a nesting place(i.e. nestbox or cozy). Of course, that will only work for so long. Sooner or later, your hen will get determined to lay, and start laying. Once that happens, if you don't want babies, you'll either have to replace the eggs as they're laid with something eggish (fool her into thinking she still has eggs) or take them out as they're laid and boil them, then return them to the nest. One thing you'll not want to do is just take them, as she might just try and keep laying to fill up the void. Let her lay, and set on the eggs till she know they won't hatch (about 23 days after the last is laid). She'll give up, abandon the nest, and you'll be able to remove the eggs and the nesting material safely.

Hope that helps a little.

[Ugerm]

Rachel, thanks for your answer. It is pretty much the same answer my vet gave me when I took them for DNA testing a few months ago.
Since I live in Copenhagen, Denmark daylight hours limited this time of year, and I cover their cage every night for about 11 hours. I use a nesting box to 'catch' them in their cage - it's the only way I know of getting them back in the cage (apart from chasing them around and using a net). So far I have let them sleep in the box and have removed it first thing in the morning. Recently I have tried removing the box once I have caught them in the cage, but this often leads to a very frustrated Ella who takes it out on Sebastian chasing him around and picking fights with him.

One more thing worries me though: Ever since the molt they went through when I first got them, Sebastian is missing some of the little feathers on top of his head. The vet couldn't find any cause for this, and since it has gotten worse lately I suspect that Ella is picking/grooming his poor head a little too much! His head also looked really great after my mom looked after the birds for two weeks when I was on holiday....for those two weeks they were confined to their cage at all times and did not have the nesting box to sleep in. I'm worried that their 'love affair' is causing a lot of stress due to hormones???

Can anyone think of a better way of getting two not so tame lovies back in their cage at night? I've tried taking their food away in the afternoon and luring them back in the cage at night with millet or seed. This worked for a short period of time, but they quickly figured out that they wouldn't get caught as long as they didn't enter the cage at the same time - so they took turns eating their dinner...lol....clever little bandits :) Gotta love those lovies!

[jknezek]

You can try turning the lights out. This works with my 3. As soon as the lights go dim, they go looking for home. Mine aren't flighted, so they only play in the area of the cage. As I make it darker, they definitely go get settled in for bed.

[Janie]

I wouldn't dare split them up and I wouldn't hesitate to let them mate......I would be sure the eggs were boiled and replaced (either with the boiled eggs or plastic eggs close in size) as soon as each is laid. If you boil the egg very soon after it's laid, you are not destroying a chick, just keeping one from developing. Like you, I don't want to breed and did have my last two DNA'd before I bought them but DNA is not 100% certain for a male (it is for a hen) and if one of my two had turned out to be female that would have been fine, I just would not let eggs develop. I've read here that rearranging the cage does help delay egg laying but when all else fails, let 'em lay, just don't let 'em hatch.

I wish I could give you tips on a better way to get them back in the cage but haven't experienced that since I can pick all three of mine up and put them back in.

[Ugerm]

Lol......Heather, that's so funny :)

Turning the lights out doesn't work either. They will just 'go to bed' on top of my CD rack and sleep there - it's one of their favourite places to hang out - don't ask me why :happy:

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1919/ff1on8.jpg

[Eliza]

Ulla -- that's the most ADORABLE photo!

Is it me or does the lovie to the left in the photo have a smile on his or her wee face?

-e-

[Ugerm]

Ulla -- that's the most ADORABLE photo!

Is it me or does the lovie to the left in the photo have a smile on his or her wee face?

-e-
Yep, that's Ella smiling - she knows she's safe up there and that I won't/can't catch her :happy:

[Cathy]

Hi, my 2 lovies are male and female but they are not caged together. They are in a separate bird room. When I take them out, I usually take them into another room. They don't like me to be out of their sight so all I have to do is stand up and start to leave the room and they both zoom over to me. They land on my head or shoulder and then I cuddle each in a hand and put them back in their cages for the night. I didn't realize how lucky that I was until you posted.

Sham is fully flighted but Melli has her wings slightly clipped because she was becoming too independent. I don't want to give them a clip that would keep them from being able to fly at all, but it did keep her from flying for very far. I have 3 yorkies that are pretty good but I never trust them and I want my fids to be able to escape if the situation calls for it. Lately, they have been landing on the back of my yorkies so I have been keeping the dogs out of the room when my birds are out. Sorry, I'm ADD and I got off the subject.