My lovebird needs help! Please read!!

[BamBam]

Hello!! I know this is long but it will hopefully give a background to our behavioral problem. We really really need some advice, help, suggestions etc!! Please read and let me know what you think- any feedback would be helpful!
Thank you in advance!


Hello all! I am new to this forum so ill give you a little info and background on myself and my lovebird.
I LOVE my lovebird! His name is Bam Bam but we also call him Bark, Barkazoid and Barktholomew. He is a 3 1/2 year old male white face blue. I purchased him from an aviary in Ohio, USA where I am originally from. He was the only one left of his brothers and sisters and was approx 6 weeks old when I got him. We have now moved to Cambridge, UK where we live with my fiance. (incidentally if anyone has any questions about shipping a bird overseas I would be happy to help)

Bam is one of the family. He sleeps with us some nights, eats off our plates at dinner and goes on trips with us to visit family. His favorite foods are chicken green curry, grilled cheese sandwiches, carrots, and icecream- pretty much anything we eat. He gives us kisses and snuggles with us and loves to have his head rubbed for hours.
We really love him and he is part of our family.

This brings me to why I joined this forum.... (ill repost this section on the behavior forum thread as well)
In the past few months Bam has started to bite his tail a lot and he gets manic and 'itchy'. He even pulled out some tail feathers and lost lots of blood and got week. We have had him to the vet 5 times and talk to her via phone once a week. Our vets bills are outrageous! He has been treated for Giardia though he didnt have any signs of it in his poo. He even had to wear a small plastic collar for a bit, which he hated, in order to let his tail heal. He is not a bored bird- he is out over 60% of the day/night and he gets loads of attention from us and he has lots of toys in his cage which is huge for such a small bird.
The vet and a few other Lovebird owners have concurred that his problem is sexual frustration. Apparently because he is so extremely bonded to me- imprinted on me that now that he has come into puberty, without a proper mate he is biting at his tail because he doesnt understand his unfullfilled sexual urges. By suggestion, we have tried hanging willow in his cage, and we have built him a nest box called the "BamBam Thank you Ma'am Loveshack."

None of these things seem to be working. His behavior towards us hasnt changed and he is bright and lively, he just has these fits where he seems to obsessively want to bite/scratch at his tail.

Lastly, we now have on loan a female Peach face LB, Olive aka "Freakazoid" who is the same age and apparently going through puberty issues as well. She was hand raised/fed and was a loving companion until she got broody. She now lunges- and she is quick! at anyone near her cage and she attacks occasionally outside of her cage. We let her out twice a day to fly around and build up her confidence. She will even sit on your shoulder or head but you cannot try to touch her or she bites down and wont let go. She has even gone for my face when I blew air at her (I do this affectionately with Bam) our of habit.

Their cages are next to eachother and we are hoping they will bond and solve the problems that both birds are having. We have her on loan for 30days as the owner of Olive just wants her to be happy and we want the same for our Bam.


Does anyone have any suggestions or information or help for our problem lovebird(s)?
Anything would be greatly appreciated as our world revolves around this little blue/green bird.
We need info on introducting two older LBs together, any info regarding Bam's sexual frustration, and how to deal with a VERY aggessive female.
Please help us!!
Thank you,
Jennifer and Andrew and BamBam and Olive

[BarbieH]

Hi Jennifer and Andrew;

I'm sorry BamBam has started pulling his tailfeathers out. I have a few questions on what specifically the vet has tested for and examined. Other than a Gram's Stain (the poop test), did the vet do any bloodwork? Test for parasites? Did the vet examine BamBam's preen gland, which is located back there by the tail? What was the name of the medication BamBam got?

Olive sounds like a typical lovie hen. You have already learned that you can't handle her the way you do BamBam -- their personalities with humans are very different.

I'm concerned about Olive being "on loan" for BamBam; if they become bonded to each other and she has to be taken away from him, it could make his behavior problems much worse.

BamBam might benefit right away from a diet that does not include quite so many human foods. Birds don't digest dairy products well -- they're not mammals. I'd cut out all cheese and ice cream for starters, in case there is a food allergy going on. If the curry chicken is made with coconut milk that should not be a problem. More veggies would be a good thing, and fewer animal fats. I know you love for him to share with you, and he loves it too; you can still share, but you can make his food choices better for a bird. :)

I hope we can help you out some. We just need a little more information. :)

[hungrycorgi]

I have gone and am going through the same thing with my lovebird, Tiki. He is a nice boy peachfaced lovebird, but he was plucking out the feathers on his left shoulder, and regurgitating on that shoulder as well. He was constantly picking at it, and leaving the rest of his body alone. I was really frustrated and worried, and figured it had something to do with the 'age' he was reaching--about one year old. So, I got him a friend. I know that everyone may not agree with solving a problem like that by getting a mate or another bird to cohabitate with (some believe that the birds will bond to eachother and will not be as strongly bonded to you. Tiki still shows interest in being with me and getting attention despite what I have heard.) All I know is that regardless of WHO he is bonded to, me or his 'girl' Cherry, I am happy that he has now stopped plucking. His feathers have grown back, he stopped regurgitating on himself, and isnt obsessed with humping his toys all the time. True, he may end up bonded to her and not have as much to do with me, but what is most important to me is that he is happy and healthy. Even if you dont have your lovebird sharing a cage with another bird, it might be nice to have another lovebird around that can keep him company or that he can visit with on occasion outside of the cage. Just a thought. Hope everything works out ok.

[LauraO]

I know that everyone may not agree with solving a problem like that by getting a mate or another bird to cohabitate with (some believe that the birds will bond to eachother and will not be as strongly bonded to you. Tiki still shows interest in being with me and getting attention despite what I have heard.)

The most important thing to ensure when ANY plucking behavior occurs is to first rule out any possible medical condition that may be causing the plucking.

As for Bam Bam, I think the questions Barb asked and her suggesstions are great. I would also consider taking Bam Bam to another vet for a second opinion. Birds pluck for a lot of different reasons and it's very difficult to figure out why. It could be Bam Bam has something the vet hasn't detected or maybe it's a change in weather or light or food or something else. I will say my vet has pointed out to me that while some lovebirds do pluck for behavioral reasons, more often they pluck for medical ones.

I've personally had years of experience with single hormonal males that are perfectly happy and content humping whatever toy/object they fancy.

Good luck

[DebSpace]

Wow, I don't really know how to respond to the plucking but agree that a second opinion may be in order to rule out parasites. You mentioned a few other things that I would like to respond to. You said he sometimes sleeps with you, :omg: and this can be dangerous for the bird. Maybe you just mean in the same room with you. They do need 10-12 hours of rest/sleep in darkness (I leave a small nite-light on in their room). Also, I wasn't sure about the timing of the peach female entering the picture as far as if your little guy started the plucking frenzy before she came or after, but for the health of your bird, be careful bringing "new" bird(s) into the same space without a quarantine period. On the food thing, I like to give my birds a few human treats now and then, too, just remember not to give them anything with avacado or chocolate as they are toxic for them. Any high-fructose or dairy treat is not a good idea, either, and certainly no caffeine. I do give them a (very) lightly salted french fry, small bite of non-chocolate cookie, or bit of toast, but they really like it when I'm eating the same fruit/veggie with them. The goofies give me a humorous look as if to say, "hmmm, this weird human really does think she is one of us." :D

[BamBam]

Thank you all for you suggestions! It is really appreciated.
I will try to answer all the questions posed by everyone in their posts but if I leave anything out please ask me again. I will try and break it down into categories as well. Thank you again!

1. The Vet
We have been to two different vets. The first does not deal with birds on a regular basis and he referred me to a specialist bird vet. We only went to him first because he had emergency after hours and it was around 9 pm at night when Bam pulled his first tail feathers out. The feathers he is pulling are the first row below his vent. The vent itself is not swollen. It was Friday evening and he was flying around as usually hanging out with us when I noticed some blood on his tail. We gently washed it off and put some flour on it to stop the bleeding. Not a great idea because then he tried cleaning the flour off. We gently rinsed that off and kept and eye on him. He seemed fine the rest of the night and even the next day. However- it was two days later on Sunday evening that he just all of a sudden plucked two more feathers out, started screaming and flying around the room. We calmed him down but he had lost a lot of blood and was pretty weak. This is when we took him the the emergency vet. They game him some antibiotics, BAYTRIL and told us to come back the next morning first thing so I stayed up with him all night to make sure he didnt bite at his tail again.
Fast forward to the specialist two days later. Firstly, she is the ONLY bird specialist in the area and surrounding area. (I live in Cambridge, UK)
She did a culture swab of the raw area and found no Bacteria other than what would be normal. She did a poo culture to check for Giardia which came up with nothing. She put him on Baytril for 10 days and also a plastic collar for around his neck so that he wouldnt bite his wound. She believes it is behaviorl only and that he has sexual frustration due to not having a mate. She said though, not to get a mate as he is overly bonded to me and it wouldnt really help anything because he wouldnt be interested. She suggested hangin willow in his cage because apparently they tuck willow into their tails in the wild for nesting and also to build him a nest box and get him some CeDe egg food which incidentally he wont eat. None of these things worked and we tried them all.

Fast forward approx 10 days later. The area has scabbed and fallen off. We take off the collar. He is not really acting like himself. His beak and feet seem cold all the time. He is lethargic. He doesnt want to fly around when we let him out. All he wants to do is 'tunnel' into our shirts and clothes seemingly because either he isnt feeling well or he is cold or both. He has also started biting his tail again though he hasnt pulled out any tail feathers since. We go back to the vet. She sees that he appears to have symptoms of Giardia and checks his poo again. Nothing comes up in the slide etc. She will not do a blood test because she said that the amount of blood needed to do a blood test (radiological test or something) would be too much and could be detrimental to him. (it needs to be said that animal care in the UK is much more strict than animal care in the US)
The vet prescribes medicine for the Giardia at .3 ml a day for three days.
We give him the first dose that evening and the next morning he is much much better- unbelievable! The vet calls and says there may be some complications- hold off 3 days to give him the next dose and then only give him .15 ml. He is so itchy and irritated that I gave him one 2 days later and it seemed to help. Another half two days again until now one week later he has had the full dose of .9 ml but spread out in half doses every two days. This has helped enormously! He is back to his usual energetic, fun, loud self.
I also might add that through none of this has he lost his appetite- he still eats normally.
While he is now back to normal he is still having itchy fits and under his vent it is still red and irritated -a non bleeding, non seeping raw spot if this makes sense. It is still very irritated and it still causes him distress. Other than the scratching his other behavior and attitude and activeness is back to normal.
We call the vet again and a few ex- lovebird breeders in the area and they seem to all concur that it is a sexual frustration thing.
The vet wants to put him on medication to supress his behavior- ie medication that will stop something in his testes that is causing it.
I DO NOT want to do this so under recommendation from some previous Lovebird owners- we got him a mate.
This leads me to OLIVE...

2. OLIVE aka Freakazoid
To answer the first question about Olive- yes she is on loan, BUT, the idea is if they do bond then we will be keeping her. We really dont want two lovebirds- especially not in seperate cages (and we have them in very large cages!) So if they do not bond in 30-45 days the owner is happy to have Olive back. Rather than purchase a Lovebird from a local pet shop here and not know what we were getting, male or female or how they had been raised, where they were from etc. we got Olive from a woman who has hand raised her from the time she was hatched from the egg. In Cambridge, England- there are NO local lovebird aviaries, breeders or reputable places in which to find a suitable, healthy lovebird that would be sexed. With Olive, we saw where she was born, where she came from, met her owner and know her story. She was hand raised from hatching by the owner who had a pair of lovebirds. Olive was friendly and loving until she came into birdie puberty and got mean and agressive. Olive's owner loves her very much and wants her to be happy so has agreed to let us take Olive and her cage for however long we like in hopes that our two birds will bond and solve both our problems. If they do not bond then she will take Olive back. This way we didnt buy a bird that we knew nothing about and then got stuck with it if they never bonded.

3. QUARANTINE OF OLIVE
Olive and Bam Bam are in seperated cages through right next to eachother. If we touch Olive then we wash our hands before touching Bam Bam. They are not allowed to touch and we dont mix anything of theirs. We plan to keep them seperated for 3 weeks to one month for them to get to know eachother through the cages and also for quarantine of Olive.
Olive appears to be in good health. She has a bright eye, good plumage, normal looking poo and a healthy appetite. No discharge from the nose or vent. We also scrubbed and bleached everything in her cage when we brought her here. She has also had a throrough warm water bath.

4. BamBam's General Diet/Life
BamBam gets covered with a blanket at nights and gets between 12-15 hours of sleep. He usually gets 8 -9 at night and then is covered for naps during the day. He has fresh seed daily or bi-daily and also a seperate feeder of CeDe, egg food if he wants it but he wont eat it. He does get lots of fruits and veg like apples and carrots but Im sure he could definitely use more. The chocolate and icecream are only occasional but after reading the posts about then not being good for him or a possible food allergy I will DEFINITELY cut those out- Thank you! I will also cut out the milk and any other dairy by suggestion- thank you again! He has never had avocado as I did know that it was bad for lovebirds. Any other food no no's that you can think of would be appreciated as well.

I think I have covered all the questions and concerns. Thank you so much to those of you who are taking time to read this. It really means a lot and any suggestions, advice or help will be considered and greatly appreciated.
Thank you again,
jennifer and Bam Bam and Olive : ):) :)

[linda040899]

Jennifer,
First off, Giardia may actually be the culprit, even though it did not show up in the samples. You actually need to save about a week's worth of samples and then you may be able to find it. Has your avian vet taken one of the tailfeathers and sent it out for analysis? Skin scrapings may also reveal something. My avian vet states that most plucking has medical causes, even though it may not be easy to find. Each time I've had a plucking/picking problem, she's been able to trace it back to a health issue.

[Tango's_Mom]

I'm not an expert on plucking so I won't touch that, but other food no no's include rhubarb, mushrooms, onions, anything high in salt or high in sugar, also, on the advice of my avian vet, grapes should only be fed in very small amounts once in a while due to their high iron content, that's all I can think of off the top of my head, but I'll check the list from my vet and post again if anything else has been overlooked.

[BarbieH]

All true. In fact mushrooms, while not toxic, can cause an allergic reaction that may lead to feather plucking. Cigarette smoke also can lead to plucking, though I certainly don't know if anyone smokes in your house. I'm just sayin' for the sake of information. :)

[BamBam]

Thank you for all your replies, suggestions and help! I will definitely cut out all the potentially toxic or no no foods that were mentioned, thank you so much.
I wish we had a better or even second aviary vet here but unfortunately we do not. I do know that while our vet has not sent any of the bloody feathers off for analysis ( we still have them so maybe ill suggest it) she did do a swab around the area and feather base to check for bacteria etc.
We do suspect Giardia but so far he is still itching/scratching a week now after he has finished his meds. The vet seems to think that he may have 'developed' Giardia as a result of his stress of sexual unsatisfaction and she definitely thinks it is behavioral.
Im not that familiar with Giardia. Can a lone bird get it? We have had only Bam- no other birds or pets since I got him as a 6 week old little tyke. The vet said that he would have 'harboured' it in his system since he was a baby and that it would have come from the aviary where he was born. Does anyone have any insight on that? He has had no contact at all with any other birds though he does hang out in the trees outside occasionally when we are in the backyard.
Thank you again for those of you who are following our story and have taken the time to read my long posts and replies.
Looking forward to more information.

[linda040899]

http://www.holisticbirds.com/hbn04/spring04/giardia.htm

[Kathryn]

Hi Jennifer and Welcome to the forum
I read all the email you have posted last night and then had a lightbulb flash this morning that may be a wildcard....Since Bam often sleeps with you, has your vet considered the possibility of bedbugs or mattress or dust mites?

For humans, the mites are not even noticeable...we ALL have them:eek: , just don't know it. But, for a pet as small as a lovebird, it may be a serious problem. I don't know if treatment for regular mites would be the same for these little buggers, but it's worth a query with your vet.

OR could BamBam be reacting to an allergy to the laundry soap or fabric softener you use for your clothes or bedding, cage cover, etc.??? I'm thinking outside the box here...

Sounds like you are getting some great input on diet, water, etc. Knock on wood, we haven't had any lovies that pluck other than to line a nestbox. I know others have experienced this and their threads are really worth reading.

Hopefully Bam's situation will be diagnosed soon and cleared up quickly.

As for Olive, hopefully she will be accepted by and become attached to BamBam and will learn to trust you as tightly as BamBam does. Time and patience will be the predictors there. Right now her presence is probably a good distraction for BamBam from his plucking.

I'll be interested in following the trail....Good Luck!

[BarbieH]

The vet seems to think that he may have 'developed' Giardia as a result of his stress of sexual unsatisfaction and she definitely thinks it is behavioral.

I don't think it's possible to get a parasitic infection as a result of sexual frustration ...

[Robin VZ]

Hi,
Jumping in here a little late but just another thought, having the nestbox within sight may be encouraging the hens aggressive tendancies. Hens will aggressively defend nesting territory. Males tend to not care about having a nestbox and it's only hens that tuck nesting material in rump feathers. (peachface lovebirds) Most hens are MUCH easier to handle when out of sight of thier cage/nesting area. The difference can be HUGE.
Side by side quarantine really isn't quarantine and you could be exposing the hen to a problem. I'd want to be sure I'd pursued all medical reasons before putting them close to each other. It's easier and cheaper to treat one bird rather than two.
To make dinnertime a bit easier, you could try putting out a seperate plate for your bird with more carefully chosen items on it. I know it's hard to resist an interested dinner companion.
Birds also resist to how much humidity you have in a room and if it's really dry in the house, this could be adding to his discomfort? Plucking can be a very difficult problem but it is usually health based rather than behavioral. Has your vet checked for fungal infection? Grabbing at straws here but it's worth asking. It's obvious you want your bird to be happy.
I would also caution you about allowing your bird to sleep or even nap with you. I know of three instances where birds died sleeping with thier owners. Two while sleeping at night and one couch accident. It'd also remove any worry on your part about having to be so careful when resting.
Wishing you the best,