DNA Sexing

[Nyghtraven]

I've been looking on DNA sexing my bird, since I first got it. So I called a vet and they said it would be like 40$. Looked on a older thread, found a site for Avian Biotech. Depending which one i decide to do.. Feather is 25$ and blood is 20$. Should I do it myself.. Or should I have the vet do it him/herself?

Mind you I used to be a vet asst. For dog, cats and lizards.. Never birds though..So.. I dont want our starting relationship to collapse because I decided to do this myself..

What do you guys think I should do?

[linda040899]

I, personally, have never had any of my lovies "hold a grudge" because I did something they did not like. The trick to taking a blood sample from a short clipped nail is to get your lovebird to relax the foot of the short cut nail. Sometimes that's easy, other times, well, you wish someone else had done it. My preference would be feather sexing. Knowing the gender of your bird can be a good thing, as you kind of know the type of behavior you can expect.

[DebSpace]

Hi, I'm not a vet tech, but would like to become one. I have done this myself using the feather method. Avian Biotech's website has complete information. Here is my thread on the first such test I did (I just recently did this again on both my new babies):

http://www.lovebirdsplus.com/community/showthread.php?t=6170

I'm confident you can this, too. I expect it compares to someone pulling out one or two hairs from our head. Be sure to give them some sweet scritches and their favorite treat when you are finished. ;)

[Keltoth]

I do all my DNA testing through Avian Biotech, using the blood method. It is really fairly easy once you are used to it, but I admit that int he beginning there were a couple of my lovebirds on who I cut the nail WAY too short. Once you get the hang of it, it really isn't too bad.

I'm waiting on some results from Avian Biotech right now. My first set of blood samples went AWOL during the Christmas season after I sent them to Avian Biotech, so I had to do a whole seconf run and send them in again. Thse poor birds probably think I am a vampire or something... :lol

- Eric

[Nyghtraven]

I, personally, have never had any of my lovies "hold a grudge" because I did something they did not like. The trick to taking a blood sample from a short clipped nail is to get your lovebird to relax the foot of the short cut nail. Sometimes that's easy, other times, well, you wish someone else had done it. My preference would be feather sexing. Knowing the gender of your bird can be a good thing, as you kind of know the type of behavior you can expect.

I'm glad to hear that s/he wont be angry at me. I can see the little vein in his/her fingernail and s/he is due for a nail clipping anyways.. gives me a reason? lol Well thats the perfect reason why I want my little lovie to be sexed.. s/he is only 4 months.. When does the actual "Mating" cycle begin? Like at what age does it start... or season


Hi, I'm not a vet tech, but would like to become one. I have done this myself using the feather method. Avian Biotech's website has complete information. Here is my thread on the first such test I did (I just recently did this again on both my new babies):

http://www.lovebirdsplus.com/community/showthread.php?t=6170

I'm confident you can this, too. I expect it compares to someone pulling out one or two hairs from our head. Be sure to give them some sweet scritches and their favorite treat when you are finished. ;)

Being a vet tech was a wonderful experience I learned soooo much. But I was falsly accused of something I DID NOT do, and I was fired. I know who it was that should have been accused.

Feather plucking... If it feels like pulling a hair... that feeling drive's me up the wall.... lol.. Guess I'll be getting the towel ready....... There was a reason why I grabbed that flour! at the grocery store :D

[Nyghtraven]

Oh yea I forgot to mention the vet person I talked to said I would have had to pay 40 dollars and they would have just gotten a "5$" profit. I was going to do it with them, till I found Biotech... saves me 20$ + office visit......ehehe.. I am willing to cough up 300+ dollars for the my lovie for the proper testing.. diseases, medicine etc etc. Def going to do that as soon as i have the money.

It's funny how I take much better care of my animal's then I do of myself. Isn't that something Lol. Spoiled rotten I tell ya, Oh well whats better then that eh?

By the way, thanks a lot guys giving me hope and encouragement. Love this forum! Can sit here for hr's just reading lol

[Eliza]

I was offered a position as a vet assistantt several years ago at one of my FAVORITE practices in NJ. I turned it down... I have given thought about going back to school to become a CVT, though!

Anyhoo! I was lucky -- Beetle's breeder DNA tests all the babies unless they are a sex-linked mutation. She uses the blood from the nail method. I'll be honest, though: I'm glad that I wasn't there for that ;)

Do you know anyone with experience grooming birds? If so, perhaps they would be willing to assist you with the blood collection.

Best of luck!

-e-

[Nyghtraven]

well.. thats the problem.. i really dont know anyone who would be willing to help me collect the blood for my little lovie.. so i might have to do it myself as much as im dreading it ;/.. I really do want to know what s/he'll turn out in the long run.. a pms chick or a horny bird lol

[Nyghtraven]

ok so i'm planning on DNA testing my little lovie.. Do you use a reg brand new nail clipper or a cat nail clipper? What chould i clean it with that wont.. well burn my little birdie.. Hydrogen Peroxide? Is that gonna kill all the unwanted bacteria?

[Keltoth]

All I've ever used is regular nail clippers, and I don't use anything to clean the cut nail unless I've cut it way too deep on the nail and it bleeds profusely. I do sanitize my nail clippers before and after use (submerged in rubbing alcohol before the cutting for a couple minutes and rinse them off in hot water after each clip), and I do have styptic powder on hand to stop the bleeding if I've cut off too much nail - but other than that, it is all pretty well straightforward.

Have you ever cut your own fingernail too close and it has bled a little bit? That's all you are doing with your lovie. You won't need a whole lot of blood for the sample, and there is really not a whole lot of risk of infection. If using a disinfectant makes you feel more at ease, then go ahead and use it, because it certainly can't do any harm and it is better to err on the side of caution in matters of health concerning your lovebirds.

- Eric

[Buy A Paper Doll]

I may be the odd man out here but I was more than happy to pay the vet to do this for me. It was during his regular well-bird visit and she was taking a blood sample anyway so she went ahead and took a bit more for the DNA test.

At the vet's office, the DNA test cost almost as much as the bird but it was worth every penny for me!

For my second bird, I cheated: I knew I was getting a female because she is a sex-linked mutation!

[Nyghtraven]

Yea actually I did that a few times on myself.. it only hurt for a second or two.. but im a nail bitter when nervous or stressed or just thinking lol. So then i'll def get a brand new nail clipper since well we need it anyways. Thanks for the response its been very helpful, and encouraging me to do it :)

Forgot to ask, is flour ok since i couldn't find a kwik stop?

[Nyghtraven]

must be nice to know! heheh, well the breeder i got my lovie from doesn't really seem to sex any of his birds.. extra money i suppose. Some vet's SOMETIMES rip you off. The person I worked for when i was a vet asst did that, it angered me so much but, if your money hungry then in my book those kinda ppl are just miserable. I could tell you a little story that he did.

You know those donation can's that they put up for the ASPCA and such. Well to make a long story short. There was a lab about 1-2 years of age, had a embedded collar in her neck he had to sticth her up and give antibotics. Anyways the ASPCA was not going to pay because well they are the ASPCA they arent made of money, just donation money * i would like to think * He took all the money from the ASPCA donation box, that other ppl put in there FOR the ASPCA! Isn't that screwed up or what?

[Lindades264]

Hello, I had my 4 birds DNA tested at the vet as I was not comfortable doing this myself. I paid more than your vet charges. One additional advantage about using a vet is that they do look at other things with regards to the health of the bird and offer suggestions. I was really greatful for this.

[Robin VZ]

regarding nail clipping. A few tips. Never cut the same nail twice, if you don't go far enough to get a drop of from the first clip, start over with a different nail for the next attempt. It's way too easy to clip too far on the second try. Also, most lovies don't usually require nail clipping, they wear down thier nails (especially if you have some natural branches in the cage) on thier own. Young birds have rather sharp nails but they need them to aid them in balancing. If you have a newly weaned bird, I would only clip the nail you're taking the sample from. Flour and pressure on the nail is better to use than kwik stop if you cut too far, you don't want kwik stop getting into thier stream.

If you bring in branches for your bird, make sure they haven't been sprayed with a pesticide for the preceding 3-4 years. I also scrub them with a 10% bleach solution and let them dry before putting them in the cage. You can find lists as to what kind of wood is safe for parrots. Apple and willow are both favorites. Your bird will enjoy stripping the bark.

[Nyghtraven]

thanks on the info about the branches. I'm actually debating if I want to wait to see if s/he will ever lay eggs. Due to the fact that I read on another forum about eye shapes.. and my creamino lovie actually as rounded eyes not oval shaped.. but thats just a guess.. im a little iffy on sexing my bird.. but im always iffy when i have to take a blood test from any animal Lol

[Tango's_Mom]

Due to the fact that I read on another forum about eye shapes.. and my creamino lovie actually as rounded eyes not oval shaped.. but thats just a guess.. im a little iffy on sexing my bird.. but im always iffy when i have to take a blood test from any animal Lol

If I've got my genetics straight, creamino is a mutation of the peachface species, right?
From what Linda told me about eye shape and sexing, it only applies to the eyering species NOT peachfaces or (unfortunately for me) peachface hybrids. I haven't had Tango sexed either, I'm to chicken and my vet charges something rediculous like $90, so I guess I'll just wait and see, I have decided that for now he is a he, that may change, but for now it works for me.

[Janie]

If I've got my genetics straight, creamino is a mutation of the peachface species, right?
From what Linda told me about eye shape and sexing, it only applies to the eyering species NOT peachfaces or (unfortunately for me) peachface hybrids. I haven't had Tango sexed either, I'm to chicken and my vet charges something rediculous like $90, so I guess I'll just wait and see, I have decided that for now he is a he, that may change, but for now it works for me.


Jenna, don't quote me (:D) but I think there is a visual thing with creamino's but maybe only if you know what each of the parents are. :confused: It's not an eye ring shape, as you mentioned, but something.......Or maybe I'm thinking of some way you can be sure of the sex of a Lutino if you know the colors of the parents. :confused: Heck, I am confused but someone here who breeds or has a creamino or lutino might know. I'm thinking that Lori knew her Lacey was female when she got her from Linda and that was w/o DNAing or eggs being laid. Then again, I might have imagined all of that! :whistle:

[Tango's_Mom]

That's right Janie, I think creamino is infact a sex linked mutation, but I do think that you need to know what the parents are. Let's see if I can put my second year genetics course to use here, for a male bird to be a creamino, it's mother would have to also be a creamino, and the father would have to atleast be carrying the gene, for a female to be a creamino, neither parent has to show the mutation, but the father would have to carry the gene, also all female offspring from a male creamino would also be creamino, and a female creamino will always pass on the gene to male offspring, therefore they will all either be carriers or show the mutation, depending on what they inherit from the father, the same hens female offspring will never inherit that gene from her, so in order for them to be creamino they must inherit the gene from their father. Hope that's right, and you can make sense of it, how I managed to pull of an A in that class astounds me :p

[Kathryn]

"Maybe or No" Oct 25 in the Genetics threads
we had a discussion about Lutino sex linked that applies to creaminos.
Eric did a great job explaining the whys in the breeding.
Tango's mom did a good job too.

[mjm8321]

Of course, it is a sex linked mutation, unless of course you have a breeding pair of visual Creaminos, then you get male and female offspring. :rofl: I know, I've got a great pair named Boris & Natasha.

[Nyghtraven]

I will ask the breeder that i got my lovie from then. Maybe then you guys can tell me w/o me having to sex him perhaps? I'm going to email him as soon as im done writing this lol.

I should get a response by tommorow morning. I'll copy/paste w/e he says

Could telling you his/her personality help any? if thats the case.. s/he is not very vocal.. only when scared, excited and hears me.. lol... maybe it is a female.. but i do have this feeling it might be male.. but who knows..

[Robin VZ]

With creamino being a linked mutation, the mother of your bird would have to be creamino or lutino for there to be a possibility of your bird being male. If your birds mother was any other color, your bird is definitely female. Male creaminos are hard to find. Females can't carry a genetic split with a linked mutation. If they're not "visual", they don't carry the color gene. Females can be split to blue. Creamino is the blue series of the lutino mutation.

Hope that helped. :D

[Janie]

With creamino being a linked mutation, the mother of your bird would have to be creamino or lutino for there to be a possibility of your bird being male. If your birds mother was any other color, your bird is definitely female. Male creaminos are hard to find. Females can't carry a genetic split with a linked mutation. If they're not "visual", they don't carry the color gene. Females can be split to blue. Creamino is the blue series of the lutino mutation.

Hope that helped. :D

See there! I knew I remembered something about the "visual" thing! :whistle:

[Robin VZ]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Our parental controls won't allow me to use the se x word..... Not even in a typed post on a web site. Good thing I didn't have my heart set on any nau ght y talk. :rotfl: I didn't realize we were going to get censored as part of the program.

[Nyghtraven]

I think the mother was a lutino so was the dad.. but im not sure. Gonna have to wait on what the breeder said

[Nyghtraven]

Ok so the breeder just emailed me. He said both parents where Green Dutch Blue's. He also said he praticed genetic breeding and he had spoken to someone else about the creamino saying that any creamino offspring for the Green Dutch Blue's would all be (f)

[Tango's_Mom]

OK so she must be female, because male creaminos must have atleast a creamino mother, lucky you, no need to DNA or wait for eggies

[Janie]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Our parental controls won't allow me to use the se x word..... Not even in a typed post on a web site. Good thing I didn't have my heart set on any nau ght y talk. :rotfl: I didn't realize we were going to get censored as part of the program.

:rofl:

Sometimes we outsmart ourselves! :D Let me say it for you, Robin....sex...naughty. :whistle:

[Nyghtraven]

Lol @ Janie. Yea that's what i figured once he said they where Green Dutch blues. I was hoping for a male but hey she's gonna be loved even when she goes through her Pms stage! (Nesty stage) Though I'm going to miss her since I hear lovies.. guard there egg for a month....after it was layed.. but I am going to be worried bout the whole egg bound.... :(

[Kathryn]

Yep, you have a female.
Glad you don't have to worry about DNA testing.
Daddy was Dutch Blue/split for creamino. And mom was Dutch Blue.

[Nyghtraven]

Well at least i got one thing down he is a she! Lol. So all i have to watch out for is egg-bound when the time comes.. and her yearly well-bird exam

Thanks for all your help guys :D.. Well it explains her stand-offish lol.. Shes let me have one cuddle session... and well i hear females tend to be more stand-offish ;/

[Robin VZ]

Well, females can be very bonded but they tend to pick one person and exclude others. From what the breeder said, he may have meant that both parents were green and split to blue which means they're visually green but both carry the recessive blue gene. Daddy must also be split ino which can pass to the next generation females as being lutino or creamino depending on whether they also get the blue gene from both sides. To simply say green dutch blue doesn't make sense.