Sexual behaviour

[wilkiecoco]

Hi guys,

I have been reading articles about sexuality in birds, and most recently, read one by Sally Blanchard. She believes that our parrots should be completely discouraged to exhibit any sexual behaviour towards us, the owners, as it can lead to unwanted behaviours and an unhappy and unhealthy bird.

So here's the problem. Kiwi has been doing the swishy swish for some time now, which I have come to accept as part of who he is. However, in the last few weeks, he has become addicted to my son Daniel, and will do the deed all the time on him, sometimes doing it three times in a row, stopping for a 5 min break, and then back to the deed again. My son is getting very frustrated and just wants him to stop. I tried to explain birdie hormones and such, but being 17, his ony concern is that he cannot do anything with Kiwi anymore except that.

Kiwi is out with me all day, and will do the deed once, and then he is back to the sweet loving, affectionate bird he always is. However, when my son walk in the door, he flies immediately to him, regurgitatres, and off he goes....... :(

I am so confused about what to do. I feel so guilty and upset when Daniel puts him back in his cage, when he is only doing what comes natural to him. Should I discourage him from his sexual behaviour????? Is there a way to teach him not to do it with Daniel?????? Or is that going to be creating a stressful situation for Kiwi by trying to stop what is only natural to him??? Should I wait to see if it stops after spring?????

I am so frustrated and confused, but not with Kiwi, with myself. I was only trying to give Kiwi a full, happy life, and I thought I was. I'm sorry this is so long, but I wanted to try and explain carefully. I would really appreciate any advice or opinions. Thanks!

[Buy A Paper Doll]

My Milo used to hump my husband. Or me. Or the computer mouse. I'm going to wait and see what others say, as my solution was to get him a mate. This isn't necessarily the best solution, though, as everyone's situation is different.

[wilkiecoco]

I've thought of that Jennifer, getting Kiwi a buddy. But I also know that there is no guarantee that he and the new bird would get along.

Tonight Kiwi was his lovable, relaxed self - just sitting with my son and myself, happy to be with his best mates. Somtimes i wonder if I just wait this out, like an adolescent going through a difficult phase, he will calm down again.

[Buy A Paper Doll]

How old is Kiwi again? I'm sorry, I can't remember. From the time Milo was 4 months old, until he was about a year old, he was all hormones. :lol

You are right that getting a mate isn't necessarily going to help the situation, and in fact could make it worse if they don't get along.

[wilkiecoco]

Kiwi is almost 2 1/2 years old now. He's been doing the swishy swish for a long while now, but the intensity has gotten stronger and he used to do it only with me, not my son. Truth be told, if it was only with me, I wouldn't be upset at all. I can accept that part of him. But I find it difficult to watch my son get frustrated with Kiwi.

I spoke to my son this evening after I posted, and we talked about ways to distract Kiwi when he gets too intense. when all else fails, perhaps time out in his cage, (I hate even thinking that :cry: ) when my son can't take it anymore will help. he will still have his daytime hours with me, and with time, hopefully, we will go back to a normal routine. oh - how i now wish for the days of only 6 - 7 swishy swishes per day!!!!!

[Janie]

Robyn, first let me say that you have one great kid! My sons would have a heart attack if Big Boi or Shy wanted to swishy on them. I guess I AM lucky that they both chose a birdie buddy as their object of affection and have never masturbated on us. When you said he is at it that often, it sounds just like Shy. I can't believe that one bird can go at it that much and that often.....maybe 50 times a day! Sometime I pet him during the act and he's so zoned out I don't think he notices that I'm in the same room. They will be two at the end of this month and I keep wondering when they will at least slow down. Like you said, it is a natural and normal act but I really feel for your sons situation and I'd be interested in what the experts say here. I don't think it's fair to your son to have to put up with that every time Kiwi is on him. I adore my birds and would put up with anything but I don't think I would have been so generous at 17 and I know that my two sons would not.

[mjm8321]

Distraction. Of course, easier said than done in some cases. George, who is still the biggest humper in the flock, used to think my knee was his personal pleasure palace. :lol It took a while, but every time he'd begin, I'd move him to another location, like the back of the couch, where I had provided a fleece jacket for him. After a few weeks, he got the idea that I didn't want, nor would allow the activity on my knee and was quite happy with either the fleece jacket, throw pillow or anything else soft and fuzzy.

You might have your son take Kiwi in a different location in the house to play or interact for a bit. It might help in keeping his mind off of said activity. Have you ever thought about a bird buddy? They are fleece and that might give him an alternative outlet for his activities.

[Janie]

Have you ever thought about a bird buddy? They are fleece and that might give him an alternative outlet for his activities.

That is exactly what I have, ten to be exact! :rolleyes: Shy has one in his cage (Big Boi also has one in the same cage) and one in Oliver's big cage. Shy gacks at both of them during the day and I have to change them out at least every other day. They don't have a color preference but believe me, they do know which birdie buddy is their own, by location! Fortunately, Oliver is way beyond that stage and doesn't mind that Shy has claimed the one in his cage. :lol He never used it anyway.

[Ducky]

While I love Widgie, I personally don't believe I would ever be doing him any favors by letting him do that to me. I don't believe in letting birds, or any animals, have free reign just because it's natural. In the wild a bird that tried to hump anybody and everybody would not be tolerated by its flockmates, so why should we? You let your bird hump you because he loved you and you loved him, so it seemed perfectly natural for him to show his "affection" to your son in the same way. So I guess what I'm saying is that I totally agree with Sally Blanchard.:)

For now though, I guess distraction is going to be the word of the next few weeks. Fuzzies and yes, I would even do time outs. Mine gets time outs for nipping me, and it has been great as an attitude adjustor. It seems kinda mean, but in the long run it will make a happier and healthier relationship. Birdies are like kids in a lot of ways, and you can't always be just their best buddy! :2cents:

[wilkiecoco]

Thanks for the advice and suggestions. I think it really helps to know that Kiwi is not the only lovie with this behaviour.

Janie - you are so right - Daniel is an amazing young man. He absolutely adores Kiwi, so he let him do it. But now......enough is enough. Kiwi does have a birdie buddy already, which he sleeps next to. He has never humped it, but then again, there was no reason to when his human buddies were providing for him. :blush: :(

MJ - I like the idea of placing a fleece blanket near us, and moving Kiwi to it when he starts his swishy swish. He used to use a kleenex, so I think it would be possible to distract him with the soft material. I know it will take quite a while, and lots of patience, but we will give it a try. Just having an idea to try has lightened my heart - I want Daniel to start enjoying his lovie buddy again, and i don't want to feel guilty anymore by having to put Kiwi away because of his behaviour.

Ducky - I both agree and disagree with Sally Blanchard. I do not have a problem with Kiwi doing what comes natural if he was in the in the wild, but rather my concern is when it becomes too intense for the human to handle. Especially since I feel like I created the situation by allowing Kiwi to use my fingers - i now need to find a way so we can let him do his deed, without us, so we can live in harmony again. i will use time outs also, as it serves two purposes - it gives my son some distance, and it distracts kiwi from what he was doing.

it's going to be a long few weeks, but if i know kiwi, he will adjust with time. i'll keep everyone updated. thanks again for the responses - i felt quite frustrated and unsure of what to do, and it helped having both a sounding board and a suggestion centre. :) :) :) :)

[mjm8321]

I hope this isn't too controversial sounding; however I look at it like I looked at my kids when they discovered "touching". It's completley natural, but doesn't need to be done in the middle of the living room full of people while everyone is watching television. ;)

With my birds, as I have chosen to live with "domesticated" wild animals I have to deal with their behaviors. I have to accept that they are sexual creatures and there will be behaviors that I do not necessarily want to condone; however I also do not want to try to change anything so severely that behavior such as plucking begins. The lovie didn't ask to be raised in captivity nor become someone's beloved pet (and chosen one in the loveie's mind), so a little lee-way is in order in changing/altering the behaviors. Just my :2cents:

[butterfly1061]

MJ,

I agree with you. I am Molly's "chosen one" and he does swishy-swishy on a paper towel I hold. If I let him, he'd do it everyday, but I can distract him on occasion. But the bottom line is, I agree with you.

[Janie]

I hope this isn't too controversial sounding; however I look at it like I looked at my kids when they discovered "touching". It's completley natural, but doesn't need to be done in the middle of the living room full of people while everyone is watching television. ;)



Well darn, too late, I did allow my kids to do that in public! :lol JUST KIDDING, of course. It is natural and we have removed them (our birds, not kids) from their natural environment, aka, Africa so if one had chosen me, I could and would deal with it but as for my kids dealing with it, NO WAY. They walked by the bird room for weeks when Shy first started having a full blown affair with his beloved birdie buddy with their hand blocking the view so that they would not have to see him. But, they got used to it! ;) Kudos to Daniel for keeping his cool. He has gone above and beyond for Kiwi but the boy deserves a break! :)

[wilkiecoco]

MJ, I agree with what you are saying. That is why I was so upset with trying to do the right thing regarding Kiwi, yet respecting my son's wishes, while at the same time trying not to disrupt Kiwi's life too much so unwanted behaviours, such a plucking, started. Thus.........the confusion!!! :confused:

When I read Sally Blanchards article, in the Companion Parrot Magazine, I had reservation about what she said - absolutely no sexual conduct allowed with companion birds, (meaning under NO circumstances should they be allowed to masturbate) , no touching a bird in areas which would signal sexual interest, (which includes everything from the head, back, neck, vent, wings) i was dismayed. sally blanchard herself is a very controversial writer and parrot advocate - you have to read her articles, allow her her opinion, and then decide for yourself what if any part you agree with.

Like you MJ, i feel that we brought our birds into our environment, they did not chose to be here voluntarily, and it doesn't remove their natural instincts. it is a matter of finding balance, between allowing our lovies to be birds, with structure as they live in a human society.

when all is said and done, i wouldn't give kiwi up for anything. he's worth all the patience, time and effort. :) :) :) :)

[butterfly1061]

i feel that we brought our birds into our environment, they did not chose to be here voluntarily, and it doesn't remove their natural instincts. it is a matter of finding balance, between allowing our lovies to be birds, with structure as they live in a human society.

when all is said and done, i wouldn't give kiwi up for anything. he's worth all the patience, time and effort. :) :) :) :):clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[dani]

I've been having a similar problem with my Amazon Evie lately. I can't take her out of her cage and cuddle her without her trying her best to feed me a beakful of regurgitated seeds and fruit. By the time i put her back in her cage today, i had gunk in my hair and smeared all over my clothes and arms... and she is insistent that once she is on my shoulder, the gunk will be fed into my mouth. (oh boy, we never do realize what we are getting into with a parrot...)

All the same, with dirty t- shirts and frequent baths aside, I love Evie dearly and i know i cannot explain "inappropriate" to her. It is a bit disturbing to guests that i am siting calmly while my big green bird vomits all over me and then cuddles me with an insane look on her face, and perhaps it seems perverse when i explain it, but i honestly think that we can't impose human morality on our birds. I think that my responsibility to Evie, since I've taken her from the natural life she would have had, is to give her a good a life as i can give, and that involves letting her be a bird. This is natural to Evie, and I've decided to learn to live with being puked on lovingly.... :D... I do agree with you, it is a personal decision which should be based on what we feel is right for our birds, based upon their well being, and not our own human values.

[Buy A Paper Doll]

Didn't we have a member whose lovebird would feed her ear?

[wilkiecoco]

I am starting to think that with the warmer weather, spring in the air, the birds chirping outside, Kiwi is being "amourously" effected by it.

But you are so right Dani - being that they cannot tell us what their needs and wants are, we can only understand so much about our parrots, and although I read all the books, magazines, they are truly complex creatures. I can only do what I think is right, to keep him safe and sound, and healthy and happy in a human environment. I learn new things about him constantly, and adjust accordingly. But they are sooooooooo worth it!!!!!!!!! :happy: :happy: :happy:

And Jennifer, in the EAR????????????????? :omg: :omg:

[dani]

I learn new things about him constantly, and adjust accordingly. But they are sooooooooo worth it!!!!!!!!!
so true!:D a parrot-ful life is indefinitely better than a parrot-less one!!! :rofl:
Feeding in the ear...... at least we know they love us...:lol

[Marla]

OMG!!! This was a problem for me with my Nugget Two until he/she found this tiny teddy the same size he is in my my doxies toy box..So yes One of my lovies humps a little teddy..I found this cool hanging house/bed for ferrets that looks like Noah's Ark and I hung that in the cage..I put the Teddy in the Ark and when he/she gets swishy Nugget Two goes in his private Ark with the teddy..Nugget One thinks its all so silly..The thing is I think my two are girls from the pelvic exsame..A friend told me both male and female will behave this way..Another friend who has a bird farm said teenagers really get them going because they smell all those strong hormones in the room...

[chellybum]

My lovie used to do this too - she (who is really a he) would do the swishy 6-7 times a day on us - but we found something that really works well - training!! our lovie wouldnt take to any buddies or anything - she wanted to be with us!

so whenever she wanted to do the swishy we got up and actually took her to a new location with a ball and some millet and we played a game with her -

this has worked soo well for us - and when we told our vet she was so excited that we found a good outlet for our lovie -

we went from 6-7 times A DAY every day for about 4 months and now she only wants it once a day (right in the morning) and sometimes not even that!! we also really notice a change in her - she used to cme to us only for that - but now she cuddles with us more and it a lot of fun -

it has been about 3 or 4 months since we started - and we got great results right away -

every bird is different so find something that works for yours -

Isabella loves those balls with the bell inside them - so we have one specific one for training - and we only give her millet (which she LOVES) as a reward for good behaviour -

it has even gotten to the point that she has gone to the place on the bookshelf where we keep the ball - she has picked it up - and flew it over to put it in our hand when she is hungry for a treat!!

[Bubblelady]

it has even gotten to the point that she has gone to the place on the bookshelf where we keep the ball - she has picked it up - and flew it over to put it in our hand when she is hungry for a treat!!


What a smart little birdie! :) Sounds like you could teach her/him some tricks. I saw a great series of videos on utube (I think) of a lovie doing some great tricks. First time I had seen a lovie do tricks, on verbal command. Other parrots, yes, but not lovies. Guess I thought they were too strong willed, like cats, to teach tricks. Not the first time I've been wrong....:rofl:

[momo]

luckily i havent had to deal with this with elmo ... yet...

i remember growing up my nanny had budgies.. and one used to get it on with my bouncy ball.. he used to look so awkward "relieving himself" it was hilarious though!

[Pips mom]

Luckily with Pip, he has chosen his rope toy to do the swishy with! So we are off the hook! and I figure.....this is just a normal birdie behaviour, so I don't really pay that much attention to it anymore......actually, when I catch him humping, I take that time to go and do something out of the room as I know he will be busy for a while and it will keep him outa trouble! I did have my parents over here one time and my mom saw Pip humping his rope toy and I feel this tapping on my arm, and she's pointing at Pip and saying....what is he doing???? How embarrassing! :omg:

[graushill]

Hi Robin,

I don't really have any advice to add to what's already been written and not really having been through what you describe it's hard to say what I would do. But I thought I would tell you what I've experienced with Pidget, since it does have some bearing.

He was a single lovie when I adopted him and his family actually gave him away because his owner, a teenage boy, couldn't deal with Pidget's constant (and I do mean constant) humping issues. Even though Pidget just masturbated in his cage, his former owner found that horribly embarrasing. So I do think your son deserves all the kudos he's been getting 'cause it still must be a very uncomfortable situation for him, however natural it is for Kiwi, and he seems to be dealing way better than many would. Anyway, when Pidget came to us, I did discover quickly that masturbating was some sort of stress reliever for Pidget. Whenever he got nervous or upset he would go to his favourite stick and get going. It's been three years since Pidget moved in and he's 7 years old now, and while the humping hasn't stopped, he has calmed down considerably. I rarely catch him at it, even during the weekends when I'm with them a whole lot more. He hasn't stopped mind you, but he's not quite as randy (or nervous maybe :)) as he once was. So I just thought you (and your son) could use a bit of encouragement in that I do think they get less hormonal with age. Personally, I do think a buddy would help, but that's just my perspective.

Good luck with your decision,

Gloria

[wilkiecoco]

since this thread has been revitalized, I thought I would update everyone on how Kiwi is doing.

We tried all the suggestions, offering different humping options *sigh* :blush: but he is quite the persistent bugger. My son (Daniel) is his mate, and that is it. Distraction is the key to changing his focus, and it works to a degree. Daniel, who has the patience of a saint, lets him do it once, *sighs again* and then works really hard to refocus him, usually with a nutriberry, a favourite fruit or veggie, or toy. that prevents him from doing it over and over again - altogether a more enjoyable out of cage time experience for everyone and everybirdie! :)